Motor-grading Techniques

Best Practices for Motor-grading Techniques

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Good idea!!! id love to hear some!

well, for one, don't fall off a bridge!

qball said:well, for one, don't fall off a bridge!Click to expand...LOL..good one! I have a tip....don't speed grade :gunsSeriously, I'll give it some thought on my end as to what to share. Good idea for a thread!

what about back dragging when your grading?? I hear alot of people saying not to do it. whats your opinion>> giver' .... or hell no??

To be honest..I back drag all the time. I'm careful not to get a big accumulation of material gathered up so that it's chafing the hoses etc. so I keep it light.Thats a different question..good stuff

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i back drag all the time too, its a good way to tidy up a little pile at the end of the spread. Also I find that I can get my material closer to the end of the job and to pull it away, without having to turn around. the best tip. be calm, cool and relaxed at all times. getting too worked up because you didnt hit the grade the first time right on, or a trucker dumped in the wrong spot, . it can be fun , but doesnt help.just dont be afraid to try something different. I was told that a grader is an all purpose machine . it can do just about anything. ( loading trucks might be difficult) it just might take a bit more time.

I agree with the calm cool and relaxed part. When i first started on the grader i used to get worked up pretty easy but now im much more relaxed. Things can go to **** in a hurry if you dont! Having someone there to dump trucks for me takes 80% of the stress off me! Even though its not that big of a task, knowing that all i have to concentrate on is hitting that grade and not running anyone over lol, make my day much better!!!

Remember I am not a PRO by any means, But I don't do much back-dragging simply because I do better when I am grading frontward. I can't seem to get a good feel for where the edge of my blade is at when I am going backwards. It is not recommended for anyone around where I work to back-drag on a dozer much less a motor-grader. There are sometimes that it is helpful. A lot (not all) operators use the back of things too much as a last resort for doing sorry forwards grading in the first place ( Sorry guys the truth has to come out sometime :crying ). Remember I put the "a lot (not all)" in there so don't be :cussing me.Thanks for the positive feedback.

Sorry If I made anybody mad, I was trying to make a joke out of it.

Hey there Clayton M...no one is madThis is a good thread you started here. If everyone agree, and felt the same about everything then it would be a pretty boring place wouldn't it?

Thanks. I just thought that since I had not gotten any replies lately that what I said about back dragging had gotten some people mad. Sorry for the hick-up, Carry On.

Carry on we will. Some don't believe in back dragging as it will broom up the threads on the blade bolts, making them hard to get off. Also material will get up around your moldboard slide piston and hoses. I try to avoid that as said.But I don't do much back-dragging simply because I do better when I am grading frontward. I can't seem to get a good feel for where the edge of my blade is at when I am going backwardsClick to expand...When you can do just as good a job grading backwards as you do front wards then you can call yourself a grader operator...Believe that??

Thanks for that compliment. The only problem I have with motor-graders is that finding where grade from the cab and knowing if I am on it. Any tips on that?

What do you mean by finding grade? You should see a few reference points on your blade ends that you can judge how much your cutting. If you know the pan of your curb is 4 inches and you have 4 inches of bit, your right on. If you have someone in running paint in front of you, and you have a - or + 1/4 the means you just need to brush the paint off, or cover it with a little dust. It all comes down to material management. Plus, its easier if you start out with too much material rather than not enough. You have to have material to grade with. It all takes time to learn, keep it up and youll get it.The problem I have is not being able to find a grader seat. I would love to be in one full time, but no one around here uses them, and those that do have a waiting list of operators to fill that cab.

Grader4me said:When you can do just as good a job grading backwards as you do front wards then you can call yourself a grader operator...Believe that??Click to expand...i still remember the first time i seen someone finish off a cul-de-sac by backdraging.... blew my mind.... and he made it look so easy. hopefully that will be me someday!!

I backdrag all the time, and thats the best way to finish a cul-de sac I think. When I'm working any short area I backdrag and if I need to make a lite cut, just roll the blade all the way over.

I learned how to run a blade the best by "checking grade" for some really good operators in AZ on the big developements out there. I saw all the tricks and then when it was my turn to operate, I had a huge advantage over the other new guys, cuz I paid attention to what I had seen. Practice makes perfect!!

JD DURFEY said:I learned how to run a blade the best by "checking grade" for some really good operators in AZ on the big developements out there. I saw all the tricks and then when it was my turn to operate, I had a huge advantage over the other new guys, cuz I paid attention to what I had seen. Practice makes perfect!!Click to expand...All the best finish operators started out on the ground. Ive spent a lot of time with a paint can. It can be as boring as you want. I always took advantage of my time on the ground and figured out what my dozer or grader man was doing. I would watch. I would figure out what he was doing, and what his next move was going to be.

All Those TeethRemember guys the circle has teeth 360 degrees. Those back teeth aren’t for looks, they’re made to be used. The practice of finishing a cul-de-sac in reverse or maybe even getting it close (my choice) makes great sense if you’re not running an all wheel drive machine. The forces created by the moldboard angle and laterally moving material over comes the front tires traction coefficient many times. It only takes about 60 seconds to turn it around. I can turn our 16 foot moldboard on our 14H around in about 70 seconds, just over a minute. That time includes the time spent pulling the pin and repositioning the linkbar. I always do it on the right side, I put the pin in the far right hole, swing the drawbar, circle and moldboard up beside the machine with the moldboard facing straight up at the sky, circle the moldboard clockwise and side-shift the left end out over the top of the right front tire completely retracting the cylinder (H Series), then retract the left lift cylinder, extend the right lift cylinder, keep rotating clockwise and retracting the centershift cylinder at the same time. It’s all simultaneous motion. This brings the right end of the moldboard (soon to become the left) under the S bend in the main frame while the left end (soon to become the right) is rolling right down behind and beside the right front tire. As soon as I get the moldboard back under the main frame I reposition the linkage if necessary. If the machine is equipped with grade/slope control then the cable to the rotation sensor has to be specially routed or it will get torn right in half. Every machine I operate I take the time to reroute the cable so that it’s possible to turn the circle and moldboard around. The picture below shows the way I generally park the machine at night; circle and moldboard facing back with the tires off the ground. This position exposes the front circle drive teeth so we can apply grease every day (like the book says). These are the teeth that are being used 99% of the time we’re working. Every couple days I scrap off the old dirty grease using a drywall spatula and every couple weeks I wash the teeth with solvent. This positioning also gets the weight off the tires at night. Don’t want any flat spots in the tires come morning. Many times we get in and have to start finishing to hubs first thing in the morning. In the last training class I taught I made it manditory to graduate. They had to be able to proficiently reposition the linkage, clean the top of the moldboard using the linkage, pull a back slope and park the machine at night with the moldboard facing back.In the other pictures, which are dark, but if you look closely you can see the moldboard is turned around on the 16M. This works great for squeegeeing the water on top of the ice and filling the small holes and accelerating the freeze time. You can rub the ice (snow & water mixture) and not cut into it. Turning the moldboard around on this 16M with a 2 foot extension requires a little more caution and it helps if you run the front tires up on a pile, this makes it easier to swing the moldboard extension under the steps. It would be real easy to tear the steps right off the machine if you don’t know what you’re doing. That applies to any grader not just the 16M.I also turn the moldboard around for finishing away from bridge abutments and will explain this more in detail later. I turn it around and articulate for cleaning some wet ditches also. Like I said they put those teeth there for a reason.I will photograph this entire procedure step by step when I get time and post it. I will also add more to this thread in general, but right now I have to get ready to travel again.This part is for all you younger guys that like adventure; I’m actually on my two weeks R&R from the Chevron project right now, but got a phone call yesterday morning. We were just awarded a hazardous cleanup project off the Northern coast of Alaska. It’s an old “Defense Early Warning” radar site. So I have to go get baseline blood work done today then spend the next 4 days in training, yeap right through the weekend so that we can be ready to fly back to Deadhorse the first of next week. We are going to haul the material 50 miles across the sea ice back to Prudhoe Bay where it will be put in special containment. I look at this as another great adventure, which I get to be a part of and the pay is fantastic (so is the food). They don’t call me to go on these details because they like the way I look or the things I say, they call me for one reason and one reason only; because I can operate a motor grader. My father told me over 30 years ago while I was riding in a grader with him and watching his every move, “Get good on one of these son and you will never have to look for a job”. That statement has rung true so many times in my life that I’ve lost count. It’s a great career! Don’t ever pass up the chance to get on one.Regards, Randy

Randy Krieg said:Remember guys the circle has teeth 360 degrees. Those back teeth aren’t for looks, they’re made to be used. The practice of finishing a cul-de-sac in reverse or maybe even getting it close (my choice) makes great sense if you’re not running an all wheel drive machine. The forces created by the moldboard angle and laterally moving material over comes the front tires traction coefficient many times. It only takes about 60 seconds to turn it around. I can turn our 16 foot moldboard on our 14H around in about 70 seconds, just over a minute. That time includes the time spent pulling the pin and repositioning the linkbar. I always do it on the right side, I put the pin in the far right hole, swing the drawbar, circle and moldboard up beside the machine with the moldboard facing straight up at the sky, circle the moldboard clockwise and side-shift the left end out over the top of the right front tire completely retracting the cylinder (H Series), then retract the left lift cylinder, extend the right lift cylinder, keep rotating clockwise and retracting the centershift cylinder at the same time. It’s all simultaneous motion. This brings the right end of the moldboard (soon to become the left) under the S bend in the main frame while the left end (soon to become the right) is rolling right down behind and beside the right front tire. As soon as I get the moldboard back under the main frame I reposition the linkage if necessary. If the machine is equipped with grade/slope control then the cable to the rotation sensor has to be specially routed or it will get torn right in half. Every machine I operate I take the time to reroute the cable so that it’s possible to turn the circle and moldboard around. The picture below shows the way I generally park the machine at night; circle and moldboard facing back with the tires off the ground. This position exposes the front circle drive teeth so we can apply grease every day (like the book says). These are the teeth that are being used 99% of the time we’re working. Every couple days I scrap off the old dirty grease using a drywall spatula and every couple weeks I wash the teeth with solvent. This positioning also gets the weight off the tires at night. Don’t want any flat spots in the tires come morning. Many times we get in and have to start finishing to hubs first thing in the morning. In the last training class I taught I made it manditory to graduate. They had to be able to proficiently reposition the linkage, clean the top of the moldboard using the linkage, pull a back slope and park the machine at night with the moldboard facing back.In the other pictures, which are dark, but if you look closely you can see the moldboard is turned around on the 16M. This works great for squeegeeing the water on top of the ice and filling the small holes and accelerating the freeze time. You can rub the ice (snow & water mixture) and not cut into it. Turning the moldboard around on this 16M with a 2 foot extension requires a little more caution and it helps if you run the front tires up on a pile, this makes it easier to swing the moldboard extension under the steps. It would be real easy to tear the steps right off the machine if you don’t know what you’re doing. That applies to any grader not just the 16M.I also turn the moldboard around for finishing away from bridge abutments and will explain this more in detail later. I turn it around and articulate for cleaning some wet ditches also. Like I said they put those teeth there for a reason.I will photograph this entire procedure step by step when I get time and post it. I will also add more to this thread in general, but right now I have to get ready to travel again.This part is for all you younger guys that like adventure; I’m actually on my two weeks R&R from the Chevron project right now, but got a phone call yesterday morning. We were just awarded a hazardous cleanup project off the Northern coast of Alaska. It’s an old “Defense Early Warning” radar site. So I have to go get baseline blood work done today then spend the next 4 days in training, yeap right through the weekend so that we can be ready to fly back to Deadhorse the first of next week. We are going to haul the material 50 miles across the sea ice back to Prudhoe Bay where it will be put in special containment. I look at this as another great adventure, which I get to be a part of and the pay is fantastic (so is the food). They don’t call me to go on these details because they like the way I look or the things I say, they call me for one reason and one reason only; because I can operate a motor grader. My father told me over 30 years ago while I was riding in a grader with him and watching his every move, “Get good on one of these son and you will never have to look for a job”. That statement has rung true so many times in my life that I’ve lost count. It’s a great career! Don’t ever pass up the chance to get on one.Regards, RandyClick to expand...wow... very interesting, i have never hear or seen this done before. I will be giving it a try thats for sure.I have a question about moving the moldboard over. I always have trouble getting the pin to come out and getting everything to move over, and i think its beacuse i never have been shown the correct way to do it. Should it be such a task to get it to come out? or is it a fairly easy process?? is there a position that the moldboard should be in to make it easy?? To some this may seem like a simple process to some.. but it takes me a LONG time to get it right.

All good info. I can see turning the moldboard in certain situations such as Randy described, as it's really no big task to turn it. But..for the jobs that I used to do it would just waste to much time.I have a question about moving the moldboard over. I always have trouble getting the pin to come out and getting everything to move over, and i think its beacuse i never have been shown the correct way to do it. Should it be such a task to get it to come out? or is it a fairly easy process?? is there a position that the moldboard should be in to make it easy?? To some this may seem like a simple process to some.. but it takes me a LONG time to get it right.Click to expand...The way that I do it is side shift the circle all the way to the right, lower the blade, unlock the pin, apply a little pressure to the right side, let up a bit and keep doing this until the pin retracts. If you don't use this much the pin comes out hard. After the pin retracts..well, Randy sumed it up.I turn it around and articulate for cleaning some wet ditches alsoClick to expand....Never tried that before. Be interested in some pictures.

This is a great site and I recommend it to every motor-grader operator.http://articles.directorym.net/Using_All_of_a_Motor_Graders_Features-a941620.html

Thank you very much for the information Randy. This is the kind of info that some operators never think of, and might never be needed, but its handy to know. I for one will try turning the blade next i do a cul-de-sac, instead of back dragging, just to try it to say I have.I guess this is one instance when you can teach an old ( sort of) dog new tricks.

Clayton M said:This is a great site and I recommend it to every motor-grader operator.http://articles.directorym.net/Using_All_of_a_Motor_Graders_Features-a941620.htmlClick to expand...Hereis another great site that I would recommend for any grader operator

Motor-Grading Techniques:Danial Doherty said:wow... very interesting, i have never hear or seen this done before. I will be giving it a try thats for sure.Click to expand...Kinda like a computer... I probably only use about 1/10 of it's capablities...simply because I don't know, or nobody has shown me how.Tips and tricks... that's what it's all about... and that's how you learn...OCR...

Whenever the words "motor grader" and "Randy Krieg" cross I always know we are in for an amazing set of photos showing that you really can do anything with a grader.:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy Thanks again for sharing Randy... I've completely lost track in this topic, but can you post the photos where you used the scarifier tooth to hold the front linkage up while you were grading the slope... I think?:beatsme

Ripper Tooth in the Frt AxleMr BruceI'm glad you enjoyed the post. I keep no secrets. I like to pass on what I've learned, somethings work and some don't. I'll never stop trying new ideas, that's what makes it fun.You can't post the same picture twice on this forum. It's in "Teaching the tricks of Grading"Randy

Grader4meIt sure looks like the moldboard is facing back in your Avator? I think you’re holding out on us here? I know the picture is small and a little hard to see, but I thought that was a funny coincidence.Regards, Randy

Lol...yeah, it's for speed grading..backwards! Never noticed the blade..hell, I can barely see this computer srceen...

Great Tips!Randy Krieg said:Remember guys the circle has teeth 360 degrees. Those back teeth aren’t for looks, they’re made to be used. The practice of finishing a cul-de-sac in reverse or maybe even getting it close (my choice) makes great sense if you’re not running an all wheel drive machine. The forces created by the moldboard angle and laterally moving material over comes the front tires traction coefficient many times. It only takes about 60 seconds to turn it around. I can turn our 16 foot moldboard on our 14H around in about 70 seconds, just over a minute. That time includes the time spent pulling the pin and repositioning the linkbar. I always do it on the right side, I put the pin in the far right hole, swing the drawbar, circle and moldboard up beside the machine with the moldboard facing straight up at the sky, circle the moldboard clockwise and side-shift the left end out over the top of the right front tire completely retracting the cylinder (H Series), then retract the left lift cylinder, extend the right lift cylinder, keep rotating clockwise and retracting the centershift cylinder at the same time. It’s all simultaneous motion. This brings the right end of the moldboard (soon to become the left) under the S bend in the main frame while the left end (soon to become the right) is rolling right down behind and beside the right front tire. As soon as I get the moldboard back under the main frame I reposition the linkage if necessary. If the machine is equipped with grade/slope control then the cable to the rotation sensor has to be specially routed or it will get torn right in half. Every machine I operate I take the time to reroute the cable so that it’s possible to turn the circle and moldboard around. The picture below shows the way I generally park the machine at night; circle and moldboard facing back with the tires off the ground. This position exposes the front circle drive teeth so we can apply grease every day (like the book says). These are the teeth that are being used 99% of the time we’re working. Every couple days I scrap off the old dirty grease using a drywall spatula and every couple weeks I wash the teeth with solvent. This positioning also gets the weight off the tires at night. Don’t want any flat spots in the tires come morning. Many times we get in and have to start finishing to hubs first thing in the morning. In the last training class I taught I made it manditory to graduate. They had to be able to proficiently reposition the linkage, clean the top of the moldboard using the linkage, pull a back slope and park the machine at night with the moldboard facing back.In the other pictures, which are dark, but if you look closely you can see the moldboard is turned around on the 16M. This works great for squeegeeing the water on top of the ice and filling the small holes and accelerating the freeze time. You can rub the ice (snow & water mixture) and not cut into it. Turning the moldboard around on this 16M with a 2 foot extension requires a little more caution and it helps if you run the front tires up on a pile, this makes it easier to swing the moldboard extension under the steps. It would be real easy to tear the steps right off the machine if you don’t know what you’re doing. That applies to any grader not just the 16M.I also turn the moldboard around for finishing away from bridge abutments and will explain this more in detail later. I turn it around and articulate for cleaning some wet ditches also. Like I said they put those teeth there for a reason.I will photograph this entire procedure step by step when I get time and post it. I will also add more to this thread in general, but right now I have to get ready to travel again.This part is for all you younger guys that like adventure; I’m actually on my two weeks R&R from the Chevron project right now, but got a phone call yesterday morning. We were just awarded a hazardous cleanup project off the Northern coast of Alaska. It’s an old “Defense Early Warning” radar site. So I have to go get baseline blood work done today then spend the next 4 days in training, yeap right through the weekend so that we can be ready to fly back to Deadhorse the first of next week. We are going to haul the material 50 miles across the sea ice back to Prudhoe Bay where it will be put in special containment. I look at this as another great adventure, which I get to be a part of and the pay is fantastic (so is the food). They don’t call me to go on these details because they like the way I look or the things I say, they call me for one reason and one reason only; because I can operate a motor grader. My father told me over 30 years ago while I was riding in a grader with him and watching his every move, “Get good on one of these son and you will never have to look for a job”. That statement has rung true so many times in my life that I’ve lost count. It’s a great career! Don’t ever pass up the chance to get on one.Regards, RandyClick to expand...Randy ... Thanks for taking the time to share some great tips! :notworthy I work for a County Government (Road & Bridge Dept.) on the western slope of Colorado. We do a lot of county road maintenance as well as snow plowing, and would love to hear more tips and tricks of the trade. I'm always willing to learn!Ray

Welcome to the forum Ray! :drinkup

Grader4me said:Welcome to the forum Ray! :drinkupClick to expand...Thanks! Happy to be here!

Clayton M said:This is a great site and I recommend it to every motor-grader operator.http://articles.directorym.net/Using_All_of_a_Motor_Graders_Features-a941620.htmlClick to expand...Thanks for the vote of confidence! I've got a ton of time and effort invested in creating some illustrations that I hope are pretty useful to go with that very story. If you go to the original source:Use All of a Motor Grader’s Features to Build Roads Betteryou can have a look at 'em, and let me know what you think.Hope this helps,Larry

I also do quite a bit of back dragging. Some like my friend Randy Krieg,some just plain back dragging depending on road conditions and what I'm doing. I caught onto reversing the blade years ago when our county switched to carbide tipped blades.

Sling Blade said:Randy ... Thanks for taking the time to share some great tips! :notworthy I work for a County Government (Road & Bridge Dept.) on the western slope of Colorado. We do a lot of county road maintenance as well as snow plowing, and would love to hear more tips and tricks of the trade. I'm always willing to learn!RayClick to expand...That's cool to read. Screwing around yesterday and turned the blade around and thought how this would be useful. Got ap in now for a Mechanics job, but if it don't work out I look forward to getting more tips. You can run grader for years and always learn something new. I will tell my dad about doing that.

The only problem I have with motor-graders is that finding where grade from the cab and knowing if I am on it. Any tips on that? - I thing after some time you should start feeling the blade, the same way you feel the wheels of the car you are driving. Thought you cant see them you know exactly where they run.

To me the difficult part of the job is calculating the exact amount of material that is needed and empty it at the right place. Once you succeed that, the rest of the job is eazy .

Reversing the Moldboard PicturesI'm glad you guys found it informative. I will get the pictures taken and posted when I get time. Right now I'm on a horse of a different color and racing to beat spring thaw. We have to have this cleanup completed before the sea ice goes out in about 3-4 weeks. We are hauling everything 50 miles across the Arctic Ocean to get it in and out of here. My crew even hauled this EX350; 50 miles across the Arctic ice to get it here.:cool2Regards, Randy

That is funny.Imagine moving an excavator with no consideration for overhead clearance.They probably do that to make it easier to find after it drops through the ice.Just kidding Randy...........thanks for the great pics.Anything to do with construction equipment in Alaska intrigues me.Ron G

NIce shots Randy, am I right in assuming that the loader hadn't been used in a few days lol. What is the guy doing with the shovel in that photo?

Sling Blade said:Thanks! Happy to be here!Click to expand...sling blade huh? i like it,some people call it a Kaiser knife:drinkup wecome!

I also back drag all the time mostly were rock road meets pavement. Told our cat dealer this one time he about crapped himself, he said we should not do that puts to much reverse preasure on circle and a frame, ha ha I still do it just won't tell anymore salesmen.

Randy as always well written and awe inspiring phots as well. Be careful at that early warning base. They used to use small nuclear reactors in some of them. I don't doubt the bad stuff has been taken out but who knows if some contaminated widget or something was left laying around :Banghead .Squizzy before you read this yes I do have nuclear on the brain this month. Something to do with this Physics class I'm in.Did you know Hydrogen has... Never mind I get all this crap running around in my head and I'm so glad I can visit here and bore everybody.:sleeping :crazy

Go Randy go. You need help beating the sea ice out,let me know and I get up there with the Deere. Great photos as usual.

These tips are awesome:notworthy, I loved running motorgrader in College. I would really like to get the chance to learn to REALLY Operate Grader in the real world. We'll see how things play out.

Great North PicturesRandy Krieg said:I'm glad you guys found it informative. I will get the pictures taken and posted when I get time. Right now I'm on a horse of a different color and racing to beat spring thaw. We have to have this cleanup completed before the sea ice goes out in about 3-4 weeks. We are hauling everything 50 miles across the Arctic Ocean to get it in and out of here. My crew even hauled this EX350; 50 miles across the Arctic ice to get it here.:cool2Regards, RandyClick to expand...Randy, I checked out the Arctic Ocean on Google earth.......that's one heck of a lot of water and ice! The pic's are great! How did you like the 350 with a thumb? Looks like a real nice machine as are all the rest I see in the pic's.Send along any and all pictures you can, as I for one, love to see them and hear of the stories from the Great North!:usaScott

Home at LastScottThe 350 is a nice machine, it did quit on us one day at about -50 degrees.It had gotten a small crack in the fuel filter mounting pad. Started aerating the fuel and caused it to quit. After that repair it did fine. More impressive to me was our old EX200, which never missed a beat. The EX200 did loose the swing motor internal seal so we had to drain it and pump it full of Arctic Grease to finish the job.Here are a couple pictures of the trip home and the last Supersack of soil hanging on the 120E forks. We finished ahead of schedule!!!!!Just four days after arriving home I had to put on demonstration for 800 high school students, some teachers and some administrators at the Alaska State Fair grounds as part of Alaska Construction Career days. I spent two days washing and getting ready since the machine just came from the North Slope project. They even used our display to film their commercial. I demonstrated running our 14H off a dual plane laser and a sonic tracer. I also had a brand new 160M sitting right next to our 14H. I did a moldboard repositioning demonstration with the 160M. When I was done running the machine I let them climb in 14H cab first and then go directly to the 160M. This way they could compare the two control systems. I don’t think I need to tell you, which one the kids preferred.The local school district has already called me about bringing my show to the schools. Some of the administrators and teachers were very impressed. They had no idea that a motor grader could do these things.I will be home for about 6 weeks running a small road job right here in my home town then going out to the western coast of Alaska to work on a new runway project.Ron, I got a good laugh from you comments. It is nice not having to worry about overheads, but the best part is there are no scale houses to give you a ticket. We actually haul it this way so we can stop the trailer from bouncing. Bouncing trailers on the ice is a scary deal. By positioning this way the machine acts as part of the bridge for the trailer.

glad to see you back safe Randy, glad everything went well for the most part -50 brrrrrrrr I can't imagine.

Thanks BearIt's great to be home and in some warmer weather.This show at the Fair Grounds was very special to me. I love passing this craft on to another generation, but the best part of all for me was; that gentleman seated in the cab is my oldest son.He ran the machine while I talked to the students and explained what was taking place between the machine and the control system.Our website producer shot these pictures.Regards, Randy

Father and Son.....FantasticAwsome pictures Randy!!Working with your son must be a very great reward for being an excellent dad and an excellent Operator! :notworthyThose kids make it all worthwhile don't they!It don't get any better than that!I'd love to see a link to your website if you can paste it here!

Took me long enoughBut unfortunately I don’t get to spend as much time in a grader anymore.We just started this road realignment project, this section I’m presently working on is just the road to our water pump where we load the water truck, and it’s an old powerline right of way that hasn’t seen a motor grader in a while. Since we’ll be hauling several hundred loads across this over the next couple months I told the owners if I can take water from your lake I’ll rebuild your road. Some of the ditches are wet and some…well; I’ll just let you look at the pictures. This is nearly the same procedure just done for differing reasons. I hate bouncing my tires over boulders and it never fails they find their way under your tandem tires no matter how careful you are and when they do!!! Have you ever seen the guy waving the checkered flag at the end of a Nascar race, :beatsme well that’s about what the end of the moldboard in the ditch looks when one of these rocks maneuvers it’s way under the tandem tires. Not nearly as glorious as the checkered flag, more like Black Flagged.These alluvial materials are very common in this area and trust me it makes great road base it’s just a little tricky to deal with. It’s free draining and non frost susceptible, which is extremely critical in this climate. I’ve been dealing with this stuff for years so I use the grader as a mobile screening plant, processing machine and finishing machine. I start out dry so I can shake out the goodies and comb out the bones, then once I hide the junk I start processing with water. I do one side at a time so I’m not overwhelmed with rocks and brush. I've been having computer/internet problems so I'm amazed I got this up, I'll try to finish with the other shots tonight.......Randy

Ouch! Just a little tricky? They would have black flagged me when I showed up whining about how to deal with that stuff.Where did you hide the junk? Was it such good base you could lose the weeds and stuff in the grade?Keeping it dry to shake out the goodies! :drinkupGreat stuff, thanks again.

Most impressive as always Randy. I guess backblading the ditch like that keeps the "rocks between the tandems" to a minimum?

RandyThanks for the great description to go with the pictures. I have done a lot with a grader, but have never turned the blade around. I never had anyone mention it, and never got my mind that far out of the box. This opens a whole new realm of possibilities.Got me to thinking back at things I have done that would have been easier.

Nice trick, well explained, with good pictures, do post more tricks like this whenever possible please. Thanks.

The Rest of the StoryOkay what I originally promised to put on here is how I turn the moldboard 180 degrees. So here are the pictures and a brief description. I do the vast majority of my backsloping and ditch cleaning on the right side so I always put the sideshift anchor in the left mounting holes. This SS mount position is very important for safely clearing the right front tire during this 180 procedure. To perform this really well there are three important positioning functions which must take place before you ever even ground the moldboard to pull the pin. The first two are vital if you ever plan to do this with the moldboard sitting on new asphalt. That’s why I kept trying to perfect this since I am constantly having to reposition the linkbar for shouldering while sitting on day old pavement.First; tip the moldboard all the way back which brings the board up close to the circle and drawbar, this puts the drawbar at a negative angle when the moldboard is grounded and extends the lift cylinder rods further out of the barrel. This is important or you’ll run out of left lift cylinder travel before the linkbar reaches alignment with the far right pin position. Second; extend the centershift cylinder all the way to the right before grounding the moldboard. Again you’ll be using this cylinder’s retracting travel when you’re repositioning the linkage. (see photos) If you don’t extend it before grounding then you won’t be able to retract it when you’re repositioning the linkage, things get really ugly when you don’t use the centershift simultaneously with the lift cylinders. Better yet you can just leave the lift cylinders in float and just retract the centershift cylinder to reposition the linkage. Third; I sideshift all the way to the right before grounding the moldboard and pulling the pin. This is so I can use centershift to bring the moldboard off the ground and not dig the left corner of the moldboard in to the ground. Remember you don’t have any left lift cylinder travel to speak of once the linkage repositioning is done. So the quickest way to get the moldboard up off the ground is centershift. You just got done retracting the centershift part way during repositioning the pin now you extend again. Extending the centershift cylinder now causes the lift cylinders to swing sideways through an arc. The lift cylinders swinging through an arc lifts the drawbar, circle & moldboard (DCM) up and picks the moldboard right off the ground. As soon as the moldboard clears the ground I start circling clockwise and retracting the right lift cylinder. About the time the centershift becomes fully extended I switch to extending the left lift cylinder while still circling clockwise and retracting the right cylinder. Once the right is fully retracted and the left is fully extended I continue circling clockwise until the right end of the moldboard is nearly touching the ground, at this point I start sideshifting left and slowly cracking the circle clockwise still, this keeps the right end of the moldboard (backside) close to the ground as the left end extends right out over top of the right front tire. Once the moldboard is side shifted left (actually all the way forward in this position) I simultaneously keep circling clockwise retracting the left lift cylinder and extending the right lift cylinder. You have to time your circle rotation with you cylinder extension and retraction perfectly or you’ll dig the moldboard in the ground or worse, get hung up in the step/ladder. Done right you can clear the step, ground and right front tire simultaneously. Done wrong you can take out a headlight, tear off a step, blow a tire and tear up some ground/asphalt!!! As soon as the moldboard is turned 180 and back under the main frame I fully retract the centershift cylinder so I can extend it this time as I reposition the linkage back to center or the second hole. Takes me about 70 seconds to complete this maneuver on a 14G or H with a 16 foot moldboard. As I stated earlier all my students two years ago had to complete this maneuver before they could get their training certificate.:cool2

The Rest of the Story cont.Here's the last two pictures. Watch that headlight!

Have Fun!!!

Would this be possible on a 140 G? With my luck I would get it about halfway and be stuck there!Thanks for taking the time to show the process.

Absolutely! I think it’s a little easier on the smaller machines and much easier with the standard length moldboard; 12 foot in your case. The best way to do this is go out by yourself and pratice this. Years ago I thought about it for a long time before I tried it. I went out to the machine on a Sunday all alone and tried it. I got in and out of the cab several times looking at the clearance in areas that I simply could not see from a seated position. You can’t see that front tire from in the cab, the DCM is totally blocking your view when it's rolling up beside the machine. When I had the DCM in the proper position to clear I would get back in the cab and look at the angle of certain components and get some delta points to line up on. You also can’t see the end of the moldboard that’s going under the step and frame no matter how far you lean, but if know what the angles look like from in the cab you’ll know right where the end of the moldboard is at even though you can’t see it. Provide you have set everything up right at the start, anchor in the proper bolt holes, sideshifted all the way etc. etc. If you’ve missed setting up just one step wrong you’ll tear something up. Copy and paste my previous thread and follow it, you can’t go wrong. Just be sure to get in and out of the cab every few inches of movement and check clearances. Then get back in the seat and look at the angles and position. Everyone that watches me do this now shakes their head, but I’ve done it thousands of times over the years, I do it nearly every night when I park the machine just so we can clean and grease the front circle teeth. It’s like anything we do with a motor grader, the more we do it the better we get.Be sure your hose tray is not bent up or the arms will hang up on the circle pinion when it’s at about 170 degrees, this is really important on the 16G,H & M because they have a lower bearing support casting, which is under the pinion. If the machine has slope control or automatics you have to be sure there is enough slack in the cable or you’ll tear it in half!!!!!Regards, Randy

The only time I back drag is when coming up to a cattle guard or a bridge deck. That way an operator does not fill in the guard nor contaminate any water ways. In BC we do not dare get even a pebble into a stream, creek, or river.

Randy Krieg said:Absolutely! I think it’s a little easier on the smaller machines and much easier with the standard length moldboard; 12 foot in your case. The best way to do this is go out by yourself and pratice this. Years ago I thought about it for a long time before I tried it. I went out to the machine on a Sunday all alone and tried it. I got in and out of the cab several times looking at the clearance in areas that I simply could not see from a seated position. You can’t see that front tire from in the cab, the DCM is totally blocking your view when it's rolling up beside the machine. When I had the DCM in the proper position to clear I would get back in the cab and look at the angle of certain components and get some delta points to line up on. You also can’t see the end of the moldboard that’s going under the step and frame no matter how far you lean, but if know what the angles look like from in the cab you’ll know right where the end of the moldboard is at even though you can’t see it. Provide you have set everything up right at the start, anchor in the proper bolt holes, sideshifted all the way etc. etc. If you’ve missed setting up just one step wrong you’ll tear something up. Copy and paste my previous thread and follow it, you can’t go wrong. Just be sure to get in and out of the cab every few inches of movement and check clearances. Then get back in the seat and look at the angles and position. Everyone that watches me do this now shakes their head, but I’ve done it thousands of times over the years, I do it nearly every night when I park the machine just so we can clean and grease the front circle teeth. It’s like anything we do with a motor grader, the more we do it the better we get.Be sure your hose tray is not bent up or the arms will hang up on the circle pinion when it’s at about 170 degrees, this is really important on the 16G,H & M because they have a lower bearing support casting, which is under the pinion. If the machine has slope control or automatics you have to be sure there is enough slack in the cable or you’ll tear it in half!!!!!Regards, RandyClick to expand...I have been on swimming pool digging duty lately so have yet to give it a go. Thanks for taking the time to explain the process.

I'm not sure how everybody else changes blades but that is exactly how we change blades on our 12G's except we don't rotate the blade around. Shift the center pin over to the far right and flip the moldboard in the air over the front tire except w/ the nuts facing up.A 12" moldboard will tuck very nicely between the frame and front tires allowing it to be almost spun around w/out any major adjustments.Man you got to love a grader!

AH Yes! The ULTIMATE machine. Heavy rain is keeping me off my grader today - next best thing is to read about them!Mr. Krieg, your contributions here are greatly appreciated. I share your passion and admire your accomplishments. Thank you.

This thread is great! I sure know where to come for advise when I get started in Wash. State for my apprenticeship to become a motor grader operator. Yes sir, can't wait to get out of GA and into the 612/302 Region Training Program in Ellensburg. Up until a few days ago I was thinking that a motor grader was a simple thing to master, NOT!!, but by the help of God and you great group of guys I will be good if not great in a year or so. I'll keep you guys posted on my progress. Can't forget to thank Finish Blademan for steering me in the right direction.

Great series, I'm enjoying all the posts here. For what it's worth here is a tip that I have. When putting in base on a street, parking lot, etc., don't overwork it. Get it in place and to grade as quickly as possible with the least effort and fewest moves. Overworking it dries out the material and segregates it and wastes time and energy. I jokingly call it lazy operation but actually it is smart. I've seen plenty of guys move the material back and forth, kind of looking busy but not accomplishing much.I'll try to remember over time the hints that I learned over the years and pass them on as well as trying to absorb the great hints here.Back dragging is a godsend and wonderful time saver. I do it all the time with one exception. They simply do not allow it in mines as the tall foreheads there think it is too hard on equipment (in muck it probably is) as well as unsafe.

Hi Randy,Super pictures and good information. I also had the pleasure of breaking in 2 of my sons on equipment. One of them made the best Gradall operator I ever had. The other one liked the mechanical end and wound up as a master mechanic for a crane rental company. Maybe that's because I had a good shop where the kids and their friends could work on their jeeps and 4X4's.

dozerdave said:Hi Randy,Super pictures and good information. I also had the pleasure of breaking in 2 of my sons on equipment. One of them made the best Gradall operator I ever had. The other one liked the mechanical end and wound up as a master mechanic for a crane rental company. Maybe that's because I had a good shop where the kids and their friends could work on their jeeps and 4X4's.Click to expand...Why I gotta have the dad that wants to pass me a welding torch and a visor? LOL.

JonesBros,I've been changing my blades the same way for years and I'm running a 2' extention on a 14' moldboard (16' total). Sure beats the back braking squating on your knees method.Been keeping an eye on Randy's techniques ands attention to detail for (quite) a few years now. It's always nice learning a few new things and knowing you're not the only "nut on the tree" when it comes to experimenting and discovering what these wonderful machines can and will actually do.Been awhile Randy. Thought you might be stuck in the snow... ;o)

Back drag ,heck, im lucky to go in forward propel with she old huber warco 4 d let alone bassackwards with the old girl.

old school said:Back drag ,heck, im lucky to go in forward propel with she old huber warco 4 d let alone bassackwards with the old girl.Click to expand...Lol! yup..ya do well just to stay in the seat with one of them! Welcome to HEF old school :drinkup

practicepractice makes perfect

Where are all the grader operators? Must be the hardest working bunch in the Forum as there aren't many postings going up here! Looking forward to new tips and pointers here. Sat on my first grader about 45 years ago and learning new things about them every day.

I think it is more " ware the new operators at that want to learn?" They ask questions and I bet someone will answer.I read and try (if I get a chance) everything that is posted here but find someone has to ask a question before he will get an answer.

I should clarify Dwan..I meant in the whole grader forum.

tripper_174 said:I should clarify Dwan..I meant in the whole grader forum.Click to expand...Hi tripper 174, I agree the grader section has been a little slow lately. As Dwan said there hasn't been to many questions asked lately, so it's hard to pick topics in which to discuss.This is a great resource for new ...and experienced operators as well, to share and learn. Anyone of us will jump right in, willing to help and answer questions when we can.If you can think of a good grader topic to discuss please feel free to post away

Good stuff Randy Wish someone had told me how to turn the board around like that years ago. I knew it could be done so I got on a 140H one day out behind one of the stock piles at a pit we were working in and tought myself to turn the board around and get it out from under the machine. After some hours the finished process looks a lot like yours. As a heavy equipment mechanic changing the cutting edges was a lot easer with the board out on the side flat so you could get to everything without bending over busting your back. Also it was a fun trick to leave the circle backwards for the operator when he came back as half of our operaters did not know how to turn the circle all the way around.

Here in minnesota we have alot of trees that grow tight to the driving lane. Some also tend to lean onto the road or have branches that overreach the road and if left alone raise havoc with my lights and mirrors. What i do is pull up to the tree with my blade straight , put the blade as high as it will go, then slowly sidesift into the tree and actually lean the tree the other was so it dont interfere with my maintence of the road. If your real careful the mark on the tree wont even be noticable.Another thing i do is run smooth tires on my steering axle in summer for laying base. When your base is laid to grade I then articulate to allow the front tire to run on the out side of the base thus producing a finished product that looks like it was put in with a paver and a compactor!w

You're making me smile grandpa.....at 68 years old I can smile if I want to.Ron G

Hey rong old farts still know a thing or two dont ya think , ha ha now im laughing too.

I'm still learning, even from the younger farts.

Dwan Hall said:I'm still learning, even from the younger farts.Click to expand...LMAO......Dwan you must be a pro by now!

Ya right! I have 200 hours on the machine and most of that is in the shop. But I am still having fun.

ahhh the good life.I learned to operate on a cat 12 7t series. If I was still running that machine I would have quite 40 years ago. They used to call them knuckle busters. Ha Ha. If it wasn't for articulation, power shift and steering and hydraulics my bod would be in the junk pile alongside the 7t. The worst thing I hated about that 7t was the spark plug wire for the starting engine was right by the decompression lever and ever once in awhile it would knock me on my a--.

Dwan Hall said:Ya right! I have 200 hours on the machine and most of that is in the shop. But I am still having fun.Click to expand...Thats the main thing my friend...Having fun!Hey there grandpa..welcome to the forum! Sounds like you have been around.

nice tips everyone

I turn blade around also

I backdrag all the time too i can't imagin not being able to do it?

Why would you use your lift cylinders to move the position of your centerlock bar??? the best procedure to kick your machine into the high bank position is too.1. pick wich side you want to kick the blade out too2. slide the blade all the way out that direction3. shift the circle all they way out that direction4. angle the blade at a 45 degree angle, I usually put the heel right up under the cab were i cant see it and set the toe down maybe 2" away from the outside of the front tire. the whole blade will sit on the ground. angleing your blde at a 45 degree angle allows you to pull the heel up under the machine with out goudging the ground. it makes it more of a lift and pick motion5. PUT YOUR LIFT CYLINDERS IN FLOAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!6. Unlock your pin and use your circle shift cylinder to rotate your center link bar as long as you dont jam the lever hard then it shouldnt override the flow of the oil traveling through the float valve and you can hit any hole you want on the centerlink bar on that side no problem. (If your using an M series just push the the top hat button the opposite way you want the center link bar to go).if you jam the circle shift lever to hard and try to force it to move faster than the oil can travel through the float valve the fron tire will help hold the blade in position.when you get good you can do several steps in one smooth motion. its alot faster this way and is extremely fast in an M series where multiple functions can be done simutamously. another big advantage is you keep your machine in float and so minimal down pressure is applied to the ground or the lock pin.thats the reason why so many people have trouble unlocking there pin because they generally have pressure on it from the lift cylinder. and if you are changing holes on a shop floor or ashpault surface you dont have to worry about tearing up the surface. Once you get good you will throw rocks at the idea of raising one cylinder up and lower the other cylinder as you try and move the center shift lever also without lifting the machine off the ground.

YELLOMTLMILITIAYou answered your own question twice in your posting. You clearly stated and directed operators not to move the centershift lever or top-hat control too fast. Your term was, “don’t jam the levers”, but what you’re clearly directing operators to do is; don’t move it too fast. When you use all three controls simultaneously you can go full stroke on all three controls and the proportioning control of the Triple PC valves keeps all three moving at just the right speed and moves the linkbar into position at twice the speed. It requires 1100 psi to unseat the lock-check valves in any compact valves on the H or M Series. When the H and M series are put in the float detent this signals the pump to stroke up, the combination valve and the resolver sets the pressure at 1100 psi so the lock-check valves can be unseated and held open. If these lock checks are not unseated there will be no lift movement. The lock-checks are designed to do just that; lock the cylinders in the requested position the same way the old mechanical systems did. Many don’t even realize there are lock check valves inside the compact valves nor do they understand their operational function. With the H and M in the float position if you try to move the centershift cylinder too quickly the signal resolver for the centershift has to first close the two resolvers for the blade lift and this momentary signal differentiation allows the lock-checks to close down slightly. Just enough to make it difficult for the two lift cylinders to start moving freely. I teach both techniques in my classes, I’ve stated both techniques in the past on forums, and I wrote both techniques in the Caterpillar H series Application Guide. Clearly the simultaneous operation of three controls is the faster of the two techniques, but does require some dexterity. What I generally find on the H series is that women prefer to use the float technique due to their small hands and inability to simultaneously push both the centershift with their right thumb and the right lift lever with their little finger. I sure won’t be throwing rocks at the simultaneous movement of three controls anytime soon and if your moldboard is gouging the grade or asphalt when you’re performing this; your machine has a signal resolver stuck open or you’re doing something wrong.Regards, Randy

Great reading guys!I've got to get out and practice some of this stuff........just got to get some time to spare!:BangheadIt seems like everybody is so busy these days trying to make a living that there isn't much time to practice.Are you getting ready for another long winter in the Arctic Randy? I'd love to get up there sometime!:usa

You clearly must work with smarter operators than I. About 30% of the operatrs i work with dont even know how to unlock the centerlink bar, the other 70% couldnt tell you what a variable displacement axial piston pump looked like if it was settinging in thier lap. So when you start talking about closed centered systems with triple PC hydraulics, swash plate angles ect ect it starts to look like a scene from a george romero movie in a hurry. Good info though! You dont happen to work in Prudhoe do ya?

YELLOMTLMILITIA said:You clearly must work with smarter operators than I. About 30% of the operatrs i work with dont even know how to unlock the centerlink bar, the other 70%couldnt tell you what a variable displacement axial piston pump looked like if it was settinging in thier lap. So when you start talking about closed centered systems with triple PC hydraulics, swash plate angles ect ect it starts to look like a scene from a george romero movie in a hurry.Good info though! You dont happen to work in Prudhoe do ya?Click to expand...My head hurts..lol..it is good info indeed.Myself? I just git-r-done....lol

My head hurts. Lay off the beer G4, bah ha h ha

Now That's FunnyUnfortunately I do spend my winters in Badami, Prudhoe, Kogru and all those other really wonderful places where it’s dark 24 hours a day. Kind of like being on the backside of the moon.Ironman; I’m not sure what’s going to happen this winter; the spill in the Gulf has had an effect on oil exploration even up here. It was another opportunity for the libs to slap more regulations on and jerk some drilling permits. The Feds pulled Shells permit after it took them three years to get that drill rig up here and ready to go for this winter. Now with the stroke of a pen they are shut down; I can’t imagine what that’s costing Shell. Right now I’m finishing a new 4000 foot airport runway in Grayling, which is on the lower Yukon River. This was a two year project and we’re nearly completed. I should have it done by this weekend and next week I’m going to Beluga to build some gravel drilling pads for Conoco-Phillips. I like working in Beluga since it’s only about a 30 minute flight from home. I know that the owners have been negotiating with several different small companies on the North Slope about exploration work for this winter, but nothing is for certain yet. I thought we would be going back to Badami this winter, but now things have changed. That was a great job last winter; nice camp, good hours and great food. You are right about not much time for fun. Can’t complain though; it’s been a good season, lots of hours, lots of travel and some really interesting projects. Best part is more money to buy toys….LOL.Take care and enjoy this great Holiday weekend, we are working this weekend since I have to fly out of here first of next week. RandyWhen the weather is crappy our satelite doesn't work too good so we'll see if this even get through this morning..................

I have two buddies working in Prudhoe. One is a EHS, Crane and heavy equipment trainer for CH2MHILL and the other is a crane and heavy equipment operator for A.S.R.C.. They keep trying to get me to come up there but Im to much of a wuss.

Hello, I'm a student in my 2nd week of grader. I hear through the grapevine that you're a grader god of sorts. Just wanted some tips on removing material from a corner on a large dirt platform where 2 sides are a big drop off. I tried articulation and can get most of the material but there is a small windrow left that I can not reach. The pin on the draw bar is out of order for now so I can not move it to a better hole selection. Got any helpful hintsthanks for your time.

Dirty Girl said:Hello, I'm a student in my 2nd week of grader. I hear through the grapevine that you're a grader god of sorts. Just wanted some tips on removing material from a corner on a large dirt platform where 2 sides are a big drop off. I tried articulation and can get most of the material but there is a small windrow left that I can not reach. The pin on the draw bar is out of order for now so I can not move it to a better hole selection. Got any helpful hintsthanks for your time.Click to expand...You talkn to grader4me?:tong:lmao

was referring to Randy but if you got anything that'll help, by all means, share!!

Hello, I'm a student in my 2nd week of grader. I hear through the grapevine that you're agrader godof sortsClick to expand...grandpa said:You talkn to grader4me?:tong:lmaoClick to expand...The next time you fall out of your boat...I ain't going to feel sorry for ya.. but I will pray for you....to the grader god...Bahahaha....:drinkupIf you don't make it back to your boat maybe you'll go to grader heaven...at least there you might learn to operate one....:beatsme..lol

Dirty Girl said:was referring to Randy but if you got anything that'll help, by all means, share!!Click to expand...You may be waiting a while to hear from Randy, after all, it is the busy season for a good grader hand. In the mean time, I can tell you to head to the cat dealer. If you pick up the H series motorgrader application guide, you can pick up a lot of good information on how to make a grader work for you. They also have a DVD that has a good bit of info in it as well, while showing you the grader in operation.

Turbo21835 said:You may be waiting a while to hear from Randy, after all, it is the busy season for a good grader hand. In the mean time, I can tell you to head to the cat dealer. If you pick up the H series motorgrader application guide, you can pick up a lot of good information on how to make a grader work for you. They also have a DVD that has a good bit of info in it as well, while showing you the grader in operation.Click to expand...Didn't Randy co-write that guide too?

Turbo21835 said:You may be waiting a while to hear from Randy, after all, it is the busy season for a good grader hand. In the mean time, I can tell you to head to the cat dealer. If you pick up the H series motorgrader application guide, you can pick up a lot of good information on how to make a grader work for you. They also have a DVD that has a good bit of info in it as well, while showing you the grader in operation.Click to expand...Thanks for the tip, I appreciate the info. I'll look into picking one up.

Dirty Girl said:Hello, I'm a student in my 2nd week of grader. I hear through the grapevine that you're a grader god of sorts. Just wanted some tips on removing material from a corner on a large dirt platform where 2 sides are a big drop off. I tried articulation and can get most of the material but there is a small windrow left that I can not reach. The pin on the draw bar is out of order for now so I can not move it to a better hole selection. Got any helpful hintsthanks for your time.Click to expand...Well, I will try a couple of pointers. One is to make sure you are going the right way. You don't mention what grader you are learning on, but most will have more reach to the right than the left. Use that to your advantage.Don't try to get all the dirt at once. If you get very much in front of the blade in a sharp corner, the force on the blade will keep you from turning as sharp as possible.I am assuming you are using the wheel lean also. One more thing to get a few more inches at that spot thats just out of reach is to pull up close to it, lean the wheels the wrong way, which will shift the front end over, as well as the blade, then as you inch forward, lean them back into the turn.You can also drive to the point you can never make the turn in order to get the toe of the blade all the way into the corner then stop and work the center shift, circle, and side shift at the same time to pull the blade through the turn while the machine is sitting still, then reposition and do it again. It is slow, but a little at a time still gets it done.The advanced way to get the corner out can get you in a bad spot if you don't have enough experience, and 2 weeks is not enough. It involves blocking the axle so you can put one front tire off of the pad and stay level. Probably best not to try it in a class setting.Repairing the center shift so it will unpin and move will help the most.Hopefully we can get some more good insight for you as well. Anybody else??Good luck.

JDOFMEMI said:Well, I will try a couple of pointers. One is to make sure you are going the right way. You don't mention what grader you are learning on, but most will have more reach to the right than the left. Use that to your advantage.Don't try to get all the dirt at once. If you get very much in front of the blade in a sharp corner, the force on the blade will keep you from turning as sharp as possible.I am assuming you are using the wheel lean also. One more thing to get a few more inches at that spot thats just out of reach is to pull up close to it, lean the wheels the wrong way, which will shift the front end over, as well as the blade, then as you inch forward, lean them back into the turn.You can also drive to the point you can never make the turn in order to get the toe of the blade all the way into the corner then stop and work the center shift, circle, and side shift at the same time to pull the blade through the turn while the machine is sitting still, then reposition and do it again. It is slow, but a little at a time still gets it done.The advanced way to get the corner out can get you in a bad spot if you don't have enough experience, and 2 weeks is not enough. It involves blocking the axle so you can put one front tire off of the pad and stay level. Probably best not to try it in a class setting.Repairing the center shift so it will unpin and move will help the most.Hopefully we can get some more good insight for you as well. Anybody else??Good luck.Click to expand...Thank you so much! It sounds like I'm on the right track, Now to get that pin repaired! lol

Turbo21835 said:If you pick up the H series motorgrader application guide, you can pick up a lot of good information on how to make a grader work for you.Click to expand...A few months back, I contacted CAT about purchasing the H-Series Motor Graders Application Guide (CAT Publication AEGQ0945-01). I was told it is no longer in print.However they did state the file was available on an internal CAT website and they could print me a copy. I asked if they would email me the file. They stated they would as long I agreed to not share it since it is copyrighted material.Dirty Girl, when you contact CAT just be persistent. You could ask your instructor to contact CAT and get permission to provide copies to all the students.It is 40 pages of clear and concise information.

TriHonu said:A few months back, I contacted CAT about purchasing the H-Series Motor Graders Application Guide (CAT Publication AEGQ0945-01). I was told it is no longer in print.However they did state the file was available on an internal CAT website and they could print me a copy. I asked if they would email me the file. They stated they would as long I agreed to not share it since it is copyrighted material.Dirty Girl, when you contact CAT just be persistent. You could ask your instructor to contact CAT and get permission to provide copies to all the students.It is 40 pages of clear and concise information.Click to expand...Thanks, I got one today AND got the pin repaired on the grader, there'll be no stopping me now! lol

There is when all else fails, a thing called a shovel that most grader operators carry my self included that comes in real handy to deal with those little awkward corners that are just about impossible to get with a grader blade, specially round manholes and drainage pits etc. Cheers RDG

I just started this week on our 14G fine grading a road. i was told to always Keep my blade angled toward the crown. to carry the dirt to the top of the crown. Some one else mentioned brushing up the material with the blade backwards but should it be in float for this how am i supposed to Brush up.

I am not a very good person to ask as I am still in training myself. I do know that anytime I've tried to use the back of the blade I seem to make more of a mess. Maybe it comes with practice. good luck! Dirty girl.

the leading edge of the blade is called the toe and the trailing edge is called the heel. You would want the heel towrads the center of the road to cast material and build a crown unless you were building an inverted crown for some crazy reason. Motorgraders arnt my specialty but I have spent quite a bit of time with CAT, DEERE and Volvos factory Motorgrader Operators so heres A few blade tips they have taught me1. Always run your material outside your tandems or in between but never infront. so you can run on smoother ground.2. I prefer to use circle shift whenever I can rather than blade slide to save stress on the slip clutch and worm gears and let the drawbar and gooseneck hitch take the stress.3. Motorgraders generally have a 30/60 weight distribution, with a blade just in float I could imagine your front weight distribution could go down to 20% real easy so use wheel lean to counter sidedraft of the blade. But be carefull in rocky material wheel lean could allow rocks to pinch in your sidewall especially while turning.4. Articulating your tail towards the windrow allows for you to put your blade at a sharper angle for better efficiency at moving material. the trade off is that you move the material a smaller distance but significantly more material is moved at once. I also prefer to roll my blade all the way back to lift the material and get it free flowing when just moving a windrow over.5. When flat blading a large area you can carry a windrow across and work it from both directions. This will keep material for you to fill holes in with and keep the windrow from being slowly bulldozed to one end of the area.6. Keep the windrow in the center of your front axle even when articulated unless windrow is so huge it cant be taken in one pass then take on half of it and move it in two passes.7. When straight framed and you get near the end of the pass you can articulate the tail towards the windrow and counter steer and it will leave your windrow in a perfect line and also end the windrow as you bring the blade around in line with the windrow. Makes a very pretty windrow8. When finish grading a large area you should over lap 1/3 of your blade onto the previous pass. If you have the windrow in the center of your front axle and move the windrow over with the center of the blade and heel. this allows you to follow the same tire tracks on the next pass and you finish at the same time rather than moving over a full blade width and having to come back and spend alot of time fixing the inconsistencies in elevations between your passes.9. maximum blade penetration is with the top of the mold board pitched about 2" forward. but when grading dont hesitate to use pitch to increase or decrease your blade elevation all at once rather than constantly making adjustments to both lift cylinder levers independently.10. when flat blading keep the the circle directly under the machine so that when circle turn is used the blade rotates level rather than changing it orientation to the ground.I Hope this isnt too confusing but these are some basics and it gets a lil more indepth when you get out of the center hole and get into high bank grading or cutting flat bottom ditches and cutting backslopes.

john1066 said:I just started this week on our 14G fine grading a road. i was told to always Keep my blade angled toward the crown. to carry the dirt to the top of the crown. Some one else mentioned brushing up the material with the blade backwards but should it be in float for this how am i supposed to Brush up.Click to expand...Hi john 1066, well I can't see where putting your blade on float and going backwards? is going to accomplish anything..except make a mess. I attached a link with some good information about crowning a road etc. Also I'm not sure what you mean by the term "brushing up". Could you be a little more specific as to what you mean?https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?t=4071&highlight=crowning+road

Wow I just read through this thread and thank you for all the good information. Grader4me has some very descriptive posts. Im going to attempt the mouldboard turn around tomorrow.Where I am at right now I have been having a common issue. Most of the pads I am assigned to build using a Komatsu GD705A butt right up to a 12ft dirt road with a wall on the other side. The issue is that there is not enough room for me to grade away from the wall initially. To get started I have to grade towards the wall and I end up with a windrow of material in front of the blade and nowhere to put it. That leads to making the consecutive passes difficult to keep smooth when the front tires hit the windrows.The only solution I have been able to come up with is to grade towards the wall all the way across my pad then move the grader out on to the road and reach all the way out to smooth over the humps and grade the windrows out. This ends up being a painstaking process and it feels like a waste of time. So after all that my question is does anyone have any tips on how to keep from having material left in front of the mouldboard at the end of the pass without making a rise feathering the material out?Pics to reference the wall, grader, and road.

RoundTuit said:The only solution I have been able to come up with is to grade towards the wall all the way across my pad then move the grader out on to the road and reach all the way out to smooth over the humps and grade the windrows out. This ends up being a painstaking process and it feels like a waste of time. So after all that my question is does anyone have any tips on how to keep from having material left in front of the mouldboard at the end of the pass without making a rise feathering the material out?Pics to reference the wall, grader, and road.Click to expand...Is there no way you can back drag this excess material after each pass and blend it in? Or at the end of each pass veer hard towards where your next pass is going to be, and drop your excess material. Keep doing that and you'll only have to get rid of the excess on your final pass. Sometimes grader work can be a painstaking process but if you achieve a good end result then its worth it.

7. When straight framed and you get near the end of the pass you can articulate the tail towards the windrow and counter steer and it will leave your windrow in a perfect line and also (ENDS) the windrow as you bring the blade around in line with the windrow. Makes a very pretty windrow.Im having a hard time understanding your exact situation but this helps me control where im going to lose my windrow and not have to make a slight lift.

john1066 said:I just started this week on our 14G fine grading a road. i was told to always Keep my blade angled toward the crown. to carry the dirt to the top of the crown. Some one else mentioned brushing up the material with the blade backwards but should it be in float for this how am i supposed to Brush up.Click to expand...Hi john1066,here is the procedure l "usually" use to form or maintain the crown on a road when maintenance grading with a 12 foot blade. First if the table drains need cleaning, remove sticks, leaves and grass from the equation, that way you won't have any impurities in the windrow of material you are working with, do that by whatever means.After l have cut the complete surface of the road, (or ripped it) to completely remove all irregularities, eg pot-holes, corrugations, wheel ruts etc, l end up with a road looking like this.

morenow to shape the road, l do my first pass like this, grading the windrow not quite to the centre of the road gradually losing material.

moreMy second pass puts the windrow over the centre line of the road, still losing material, check out where the back wheels are running( true to slope) and what the slope meter is reading, note l have the grader articulated.

moreHandy hint, always visualize the centre line of the road and how you want the finished product to look like.The third pass takes the windrow near to the edge of the road, l leave a wheel width gap between windrow and drain so that the front wheel is running on a smooth surface when you repeat what you have just done. I articulate the grader and this lines myself and cab up with centre line of the road so as to be more accurate with a centered crown.More of this post on next page

moreThe fourth pass is similar to the first, leaving a reduced windrow near the center of the road, still gradually losing material,

moreThe fifth pass, similar to the second pass, taking the windrow beyond the center line of the road, losing material. Note where the back wheels are running and the slope meter reading, true to slope.

moremore

moreWith the sixth and final pass, you blade or feather the very small windrow to the edge of the road where it should become non existent, hopefully.

moreThe rolled and finished surface, hope this post has been helpful to anyone starting out on a grader.

Michael, could you please come over and apply for a job with our council. Six passes:jawdrop, here they use 120 Cats with 14' blades and 90% of the time our roads are graded in 2 passes, taking the windrow from one side to the other. Most of the time there is not enough dirt to fill the potholes. If we are very lucky, they might do four passes and take the windrow back over again. What's more, our roads are quite a bit wider than the road you are grading. The 120's are a little bit light for the 14' blades and they tend to washboard a bit as well. IMO, they have millions of dollars worth of equipment, driving around doing bugger all, because our roads are getting flatter and there is no material left on the side to crown the road with. With a heavier grader you can usually drop the blade into the shoulder and find some material to bring out, but that seems to be a bit technical for our lot.RnR.

G'day RocksnRoses,That would be a different experience, working in your climate and geography!!! thanks for the invitation, 120's with 14 foot blades is a combination l have never come across before, l suppose it is because of your wider roads.Prior to the six passes for spreading the material that l explained in this post, it takes four to five passes to get it to that state ( the first photo that l posted), so that is eleven passes all up. It seems a lot, but it is a fairly thorough procedure and the roads last quite a long time before they need grading again. I usually average a completely graded kilometre of road in three hours, which totals out to three kilometre of road in my nine hours of grading per day.We do have narrower roads than this so the procedure is different and we achieve more kilometres per day.

Excellent post Michael! Pictures are worth a thousand words. Takes a bit of work to properly crown a road, and you have it down pat. The only thing that I don't do is articulate during this..but..I can understand why you do. Thanks again for taking the time to share this...good stuff!

Thanks Grader4me, everything that l have explained in this post was shown to me by an ex grader operator who we have had on contract with a water tanker. He showed me about two years ago and l have not looked back ever since. One thing that really hit home was his explanation of cutting the complete road surface to remove all irregularities, this also gives a good mix of the existing road material, and you are not just dropping loose segregated material into the existing problems, mainly potholes and corrugations because they will just re appear quick time.

The slope meters come in real handy don't they? My first order of business when I took the instructor job was have these installed in all of our graders.Yeah, the whole road has to be cut to get rid of the pot holes etc. or you'll be back at it in no time. I've had to use the front scarfiers to cut out the potholes when I couldn't get to the bottom of them with the blade.The problem here is that the supervisors won't let the operators take the extra time to crown a road. We have so many gravel roads and not much of a budget, so its grade one as quickly as possible and go to the next one. Shame really because if you do them right then it will last much longer before regrading. In the long run they save money...but you can't convince them of that.We had a section of road that was a problem area for a long time. It had no ditches, no crown etc and it was a mess all the time. The supervisor asked me if I would help the operator do something with this section. I looked it over and told him it would take a couple of days. I also told him to have a roller/compactor available.The regular grader operator told me to have at it and he would watch. There was alot of good material pushed over on each side of the road from the grading over the years. I started blading this material (right side first) out on the road bringing it to center, leaving the left side for the traffic to go. I then cut my ditch noticing that the material still looked good so I brought that up on the road as well mixing it in with the other material. Make a long story short I did the same on the other side and built the road up and had good ditches on both sides for drainage.Bladed all this material back and forth mixing etc. and had a good crown then compacted it. Did this a couple of months ago and it's now the best section of the whole road. Water runs off it well, no potholes yet and its still very smooth. Goes to show if done properly you get a better road with minimal maintenance

Grader4me, we are a bit lucky where we work, the supervisor's motto is, do it once, do it right. One problem we do have though is lack of employees some times to run our water tankers or steel combo roller, and we only have two graders, probably a common problem in a lot of councils, or where you are, counties. One thing we are starting to address is getting rid of false drains and winning back that lost material where all the grass is growing, that really helps shed water off the road, similar to what you described, don't know what the previous operators were thinking allowing that grass area to build up over all those years. Anyway, its always a good challenge. Cheers.

Michael, I have the problem of how do you get rid of the grass and sod that you cut from the edges? I have tried to roll it back and forth but I just can't seem to break it up and end up just trying to throw it out over the ditches.

ledsel said:Michael, I have the problem of how do you get rid of the grass and sod that you cut from the edges? I have tried to roll it back and forth but I just can't seem to break it up and end up just trying to throw it out over the ditches.Click to expand...G'day ledsel,Depends a bit on what you are doing, my motto is to get rid of a problem first rather than incorporate it into your job and compound the problem.If the material you are trying to gain(bulk material) has grass growing on it, if possible, slice the grass off through the ditches first, or bring it all on, try to separate it, blade the rubbish off if possible, as you said, through the ditches, and then re grade and shape what you have left. Either that or have the rubbish picked up and taken away.If you are maintenance grading and the drain and\or shoulder has bark and leaves or grass on\in them, l usually set the heel of the blade on an angle towards or in the drain and skim the grass and very minimal material down through the table drain and up the other side, it has to be done at a reasonable speed to be effective. I have a six speed power shift and do it in fourth gear, probably equivilent to fifth gear in an eight speed power shift. After doing that you usually have clean material in the drain and up on to the road to work with. See photo 4 as an example, although there was minimal rubbish to get rid of. Be careful not to catch the loose material that is in a windrow at the edges of the road on the traffic lines when you are cutting the grass off.If it is bark and leaves, l lightly blade them, maybe with a straighter blade and create a sweeping or brooming effect , where they accumulate and when l get a blade full, push them off where ever possible.I Hope this makes sense and it is helpful.

You're the Man Randy!!!

Mr VanBeen a long time. Are there any blade operators left at Granite’s Alaska Division? I think they all jumped fence or retired. I’m sure you heard we were awarded the Tok Cut Off job. I believe it’s the same section you did with MB back in the 90s and the same section I worked on back in the 80s with Wilder. That’s the nice thing about the Tok Cut Off; every 10 years you have to go back and rebuild it. Job security. That will be a good project for next summer. I’m headed back to Badami in a couple weeks to work on the Badami iceroad again. That will keep us busy this winter.Regards, Randy

Randy Krieg said:I’m headed back to Badami in a couple weeks to work on the Badami iceroad again. That will keep us busy this winter.Regards, RandyClick to expand...Badami, boy that brings back some double ugly memories from years back!!!!!!

Is it me or does someone going to a oporator school seem pointless to you guy's?(im not trying to pick on anyone here )I have always grown up to start at the bottom and when a oporator see's your doing a good job and you show you know what is going on he may reward you with a few minutes on that machine, and i have always looked at oporating as a privilage rather than a job because if you wernt any good you were out on the ground.I have seen people that go to school and can drive a machine and move them across the site, but without the old school learning curve are they ever going to learn to respect their machines and fully understand what is going on and how to move dirt productively instead of using a grader as a dozer.my tip came from an old blade hand that i learned from, when laying out wet or lumpy material he always used to run his front wheel on the previous windrow inorder to break the lumps up.

Old Retired Blade HandsGot a Real Good Blade Hand out of AZ, workin with Sam's Boy gonna make a good blade hand, he's up on the GPS and Laser stuff, good Attitude, and want to. Beware of the traps I set on the Cut-off, You be SAFE and Keep in touch

From what I have seen most of the kids coming out now are nothing but machine drivers, not operators. They DEMAND air conditioned cabs, GPS, stereo in the cab and the list goes on. When they get in a machine a lot of them have a hell of a time starting the start button.

Key word is DEMAND, don't fly far with seasoned operators and supervision

Greg said:From what I have seen most of the kids coming out now are nothing but machine drivers, not operators. They DEMAND air conditioned cabs, GPS, stereo in the cab and the list goes on. When they get in a machine a lot of them have a hell of a time starting the start button.Click to expand...IMO you could be considered a driver until you become experienced then you could be considered a operator, also the guys who demand all those things are probably in it just for the pay cheque. Im sure they could care less what the finished product looks like. Its always nice to have the best of the best but for me, i will settle for the machine that i have at he time. After all i could be on the ground raking it around.

Hey Danial! How goes the battle?

Not to bad sir! Strait ahead as usual, hows things in your corner of the maritimes??

Going good here..haven't seen you on here for awhile..thought I would say hello..

Here is a quick question for you more experienced operators.when your doing finish grade and cutting gravel down at the asphalt do you have your back wheels on the asphalt and drive off while cutting to the needed depth, or do you put your front wheels up on the asphalt and back off while cutting? the second method seems to be working best for me.

DanialThat’s the way I do it. If you don’t have the machine perfectly square to the joint then as your tandems tires roll off it’s like a teeter tooter. The machine is like a duck and you’re just constantly fighting it. When you do it in reverse it doesn’t matter which tires drops off the joint first because the front axle oscillates, so the front of the machine and the moldboard just drops straight down. No teeter tottering and grapping at the lift controls, just roll the moldboard back a little as each front tire drops off the joint. The nice thing is you can see exactly when each tire starts to drop because you’re looking straight forward. Using this technique I usually build a landing pad long enough that I can turn around and back my tandems in on the grade and pick up the pile with my moldboard. This gives you a nice launching pad to take off from with no “Duck Walking”. I’ve finished hundreds of bridge deck joints and asphalt tie ins and I always do them in reverse. I also still use the Swede Rods for checking this area as I still believe it’s the simplest and fastest way. This is just another reason I learn to turn the moldboard around so fast. Great question!!!!Regards, Randy

Well I just signed up and cant seem to make a new topic so I figured this is the next closest option. I just started on a grader this past week since there werent enough haul trucks up and running and there was a spare grader. Well I guess the plan now is to train me on the grader as a back up option or whatever.So basically I'm looking for advice, tips, strategy for what to concentrate on learning first, what to try not to do, etcThe grader is a 16H Cat, with the serrated blades, and so far all I've been doing is trying to scratch up haul roads to give the trucks traction. Ground is pretty frozen/hard with the exception of a couple softer areas/mini punchouts. Any advice is welcome, but please keep in mind as mentioned, I just got in the seat so try to keep it understandable for a new guy lolThanksJeff

Nothing like seat timenewgraderguy said:Well I just signed up and cant seem to make a new topic so I figured this is the next closest option. I just started on a grader this past week since there werent enough haul trucks up and running and there was a spare grader. Well I guess the plan now is to train me on the grader as a back up option or whatever.So basically I'm looking for advice, tips, strategy for what to concentrate on learning first, what to try not to do, etcThe grader is a 16H Cat, with the serrated blades, and so far all I've been doing is trying to scratch up haul roads to give the trucks traction. Ground is pretty frozen/hard with the exception of a couple softer areas/mini punchouts. Any advice is welcome, but please keep in mind as mentioned, I just got in the seat so try to keep it understandable for a new guy lolThanksJeffClick to expand...When you say serrated blades, or Kenne metal edges, I would say on a frozen haul road you just keep scaring up fines and keep speed down because you put to much down pressure and hit a Rock or a hump it can suck you out in the pucker brush so fast it will make your head swim, plus you can sure screw up a moldboard or circle pretty easy, slow and smooth is better than fast and tore up. Good Luck and keep the haulers smiling then you know your doing a good job, like I say Good luck and Be Safe, Tommy

By serrated edges I mean they have slots cut in them maybe an inch wide so basically the bottom edge looks like a comb? And the haul roads are bermed all the way along so getting sucked into a ditch isnt an issue, though I suppose a berm would kinda be bad too!Anyways, so far what I've been doing, whether right or wrong, is tilting the blade all the way back (cutting edge as far back as it goes, then ahead an inch or 2 so its not at the limit) then having the blade angled just slightly to one side, just so it isnt quite straight across. I was told this provides the best cutting while not rolling all the material I stir up off the blade to the berm. Only problem is it seems to not work at times, and kinda doesnt sound right with what I've been reading on here and from talking to other people. Wondering how others would approach this as far as blade setup and whatnot...And 1 more added bonus, the speedometer doesnt work so I have no clue what speeds I've been usuing, but I'd say probably most passes I use 4th gear, or 5th? Would that sound reasonable?I'm sure some of you are probably shaking your head about these questions since they're probably so basic, but I've never really paid attention to graders before in the truck cause I figured I'd never be running one anyways. Ooops lol

Welcome to HEF newgraderguy. Lots of info on this site for the new grader operator. Your blade angle sounds okay if you're just just scratching up some material to fill in the potholes etc. If you are making a heavy cut you will need to angle it more, but from the sounds of your post its froze so that probably won't be an option.Careful of those soft spots if you have your blade tilted all the way down. You will be doing nose prints in the windshield. Applying alot of pressure to get a cut of the frozen ground..then hit a soft spot..ouch!Work your moldboard tilt/angle...practice..and find the best application for what you're working in. Big thing is SLOW..second or third gear. Good luck!On edit...grandpa...Don't even think of it...lol

On edit...grandpa...Don't even think of it...lolHow did you know what i wus thinkn....lol.......i was..

OK spun the blade around backwards yesterday and tried pulling my windrow up the slope and put it on top of the birm..... It was a cool challenge but after a half hour or so i figured i would have to put it back and straiten my slope !!Randy you make stuff look way to pritty in reverseThank you for the tip im sure it will come in useful some day when i am in need

Deeretime in response to post 137...I completely agree. I was "trained" in the army 20+ years ago to operate heavy equipment...20 years later I am still learning. I spent 3 years in the ditch befor I ever got to dig. Now I find myself back in the ditch because it is faster than retraining these "educated" kids what I need done.

Lol Im only 21 now and i cant imagine building my family's buisiness with some of these so called qualified oporators, I sure hope that it becomes a proud trade that only the young, smart and ambitious people continue in because i am tired of a Heart beat!

Allterra said:Deeretime in response to post 137...I completely agree. I was "trained" in the army 20+ years ago to operate heavy equipment...20 years later I am still learning. I spent 3 years in the ditch befor I ever got to dig. Now I find myself back in the ditch because it is faster than retraining these "educated" kids what I need done.Click to expand...That's a shame that you are having a bad experience with "educated" Operators (or "Drivers" as they were referred to earlier.) I am one of these educated people and I just wanted to let you know that not ALL of them demand a stereo, or A/C etc. In fact the grader I am running right now has neither. I am honoured that I am trusted with an expensive piece of equipment, I take pride in my work, and I have been told I take better care of the grader than experienced operators who started with a shovel 50 years ago. This is completely due to the education I received, by a qualified experienced instructor. Yes, I am still learning techniques and expect I will still be learning at the end of my career in 40 years! If I don't know or understand something I ask, I listen and then I do it. If you... well lets call you "seasoned" operators don't have a little patience and understanding, you won't have any holidays, time off, or retirement because so many employers are asking for a ticket now. I don't know about you, but I'd like to pay my mortgage. That being said I was willing to start off for free just to get the seat time, and for the love of operating a grader. :my2c

Dirty Girl, you are the exception to the rule. Someone who wants to work, do the job, do it right, not afraid to ask, don't demand and the like. You are someone that I respect. All I know is that around here we have a lot of the other type.

Greg,Thank you, and I am sorry that some are creating a bad stereotype for the rest of us. I suppose that ignorance can be found in any industry, and there will always be slackers, and stupidity somewhere. All I can do is my best and try to be a good example during my career.

Hi Dirty Girl, some of your statements; "I am honoured that I am trusted with an expensive piece of equipment, I take pride in my work, and I have been told I take better care of the grader than experienced operators who started with a shovel 50 years ago." and, "Yes, I am still learning techniques and expect I will still be learning at the end of my career in 40 years! If I don't know or understand something I ask, I listen and then I do it."Well done for sticking up for yourself, obviously you have alot of pride in yourself and how you approach things, with your attitude you are sure to have a long and enjoyable career as an "operator" with many high achievements on the way.

Thanks for the positive feedback Michael James!

Dirty girl , i apologise if i upset you, we were simply speaking of the majoraty of witch you are a exception.Being a female you are already further ahed of the boys! We think with our egos and get bored realy realy easily.I have females and they are the best rock truck drivers we have. You take our advise, dont argue and if you dont know you ask instead of Screwing it up like most boys.Best of luck to you and hope you post some pictures

Thanks Deeretime! I will try and post some one of these days!

patience is a big part as well as good guys on the ground checkin grade and spottin trucks if u get in a hurry it just slows u down of course everyone wants things done yesterday u just have 2 blow that off

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SLKEelMILY&feature=channelhttp://www.youtube.com/user/PublicResourceOrg#p/c/7A7AA8EA70384DB7/12/oH6iZQ1eALYhttp://www.youtube.com/user/PublicResourceOrg#p/c/7A7AA8EA70384DB7/12/oH6iZQ1eALYGot these in an E-mail Enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SLKEelMILY&feature=channelI got two others that I tried to add but it did not work.

I agree, and never make a backdrag, if one watches the end spoil and the feather, the need to drag or turn around is reduced to nil, in my case......but then I am new again to bladin. learned when I was a kid, some of the techniques. I need a 24M.......just to play.......

All i can say is WOW!, Been running grader for about 4 years in the wintertime clearing snow, been running wing for the last 3 years. Never really had a chance to operate a grader in the summertime, keep getting told that i am too valuable on a loader (damnit).Been reading some of the threads on the board here and am blow away with some of the things that you can do with a grader!, especially the turning the blade around. It's not something that is amazing really it is more of the why the hell didn't i think of that type of idea .Can't wait for it to snow again, i want to get out in the grader again and try to turn the blade around, and in the very least it will make changing blades a whole lot easier!.

Anybody in here ever cut soil cement on a blade?

I myself have back dragged whole roads by turning my blade around backwards so can drive forward, You would be surprised how good of a job it does on your finish round. and I have had some of the other guys wonder how my roads can k so smooth. Known I don't do this all the time just were it needs a finish looking touch.

There is a thread on here in the grader section about soil cement

Have worked some soil cement in my time what do you need to know?Greg did a search, on soil cement didn't come up with anything recent. I'm thinking it would fall nicely into techniques.

I stand corrected.https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?21562-Cutting-soil-cement

Bad Back Dragging!I have a DOT customer that does alot of asphalt work with their C80C compact grader. Why bring a paver when you have a grader...right??? Anyway, these pics are the bottom of the circle weldment showing the point where the blade tilt pivot is. They totally wore through the metal until the blade broke out on one side. Then they were pissed that it happened.

Wow! Holy crap..I've leveled alot of asphalt with a grader, and the only time I would backdrag was to place a little extra in a low spot... if I had some extra to work with. Then I would make sure that it wasn't a whole lot...just a bit on the backside of the blade. Man..what a mess.

Bryan,not to complain, but, i don't think this belongs in "Motor-Grading Techniques". I think you should have started a new thread, maybe "Motor-Grading Anti-Techniques", or "Motor-Grading Without Brains"

mitch504 said:Bryan,not to complain, but, i don't think this belongs in "Motor-Grading Techniques". I think you should have started a new thread, maybe "Motor-Grading Anti-Techniques", or "Motor-Grading Without Brains"Click to expand...Funny that its the manufacturer's fault too isn't it? But this DOT is a great customer of ours owning 6 compact graders. In my world that's a big number. I see your from SC Mitch.....keep your eye out for 1 of these 6 machines. Hint Hint.

That hint suprises me not at all.

State of New Hampshire DOT does a lot of "paving" with a grader prior to have a paving contractor repave the road. Last year because of lack of funds, we only got the grader shim with out the final coat. They are doing a state road thru my town now. The have a drag device they made to lessen the tire footpint in the asphalt after the grader pass. The reason they have to shim is most of our rural roads are paved cow paths with little or no base material. In the spring time during mud season as the frost goes out of the ground the shoulders blow out and the edge of the pavement sinks, thus the need to shim the road surface.

Hi guys i need some advice on grading farm roads , Iv'e worked lots of different earthmoving plant but not too much with graders .Most of my current clients have farm roads that are basically bare earth with little gravel or road base material ,also heavily grassed drains and edges . Had a friend give me a few pointers with getting rid of debris by cutting it from one drain ,working it right across the other side of the road and then flicking as much material into an open area where it's possible to loose it . This all works ok where you have an open field on one side , not so good when you are locked inbetween two fencelines .I realise it would be much easier to leave it in a windrow and get a loader and dump truck to clear the debris , but because of costs and time and the fact that i'm a one man band makes that idea near impossible .Another small problem is finding enough clean material to fill badly eroded drains due to the lack of cross drains and side cuts letting the water run near the full lenght of the road ( thanks to some old farmers who think they can fight water not work with it )

The only thing you can to with a windrow of sod (if you have no place to dump it) is keep working it back and forth. This will shake the material loose, but having said that, if you can leave the sod in a windrow on the side and give it a few days to dry out...then work it back and forth again shaking the rest of the material out. You might even be able to use some of this material to fill in the eroded drains...time consuming tho..

Thanks Grader4me I"ll give it a try , the only issue i have with using the sod to fill the erosion is that it dosn't compact very well .

I was thinking about the material that was left over after you worked it out of the sod. I don't know if you have enough room to work the backslope, but if its dry enough you can put your grader in the ditch and swing your blade up on the backslope and haul the material into the ditch. Then you can use the material to fill in the low spots etc...working your material, shaping your ditch you will find that it will compact. Its hard for me to tell exactly what you're up against there..how much room you have etc..A person can do amazing things with a grader, so don't give up..

Hey G4,,,, the next time your working in sod,, try lifting the discharge (heel) end of your blade so that the sod your cutting is lost about halfway across the blade. The sod will break up very much faster than letting it travel clear to the end. Give it a try, it works sweeter than the Skoal you been swallowing.....bwah ha hhah.

Good info to share gramps...but there ain't nothing sweeter than Skoal...lol. I realize that you don't keep the heel tight to the ground when ravelling out sod...but I have never left it all in the center with nothing coming off the heel. I'll give it a try if I get the chance...if it works I'll never tell you tho....bwah ha haOn edit...do you suppose this could be a good senerio for some high speed grading??

tried the speed grading with good dry material , you can spread a lot of trash that way if you have the room to straddle the ditch , again thanks for the assitance G4 and grandpa

justridinby said:tried the speed grading with good dry material , you can spread a lot of trash that way if you have the room to straddle the ditch , again thanks for the assitance G4 and grandpaClick to expand...Well I was initially trying to help out G4, but if you got some good out of my post's thats a double bonus justridinby...

Justridinby...... another thing that works for me. It sounds like your working in fairly hilly ground if your having erosion problems. What I do sometimes is cut both side of the sod and pull it to the middle. Then turn your blade straight and start close to a low spot and drag the sod into the low spot, backing up farther each time to pick up a load of sod. (This way your not pushing more sod than you can handle). Once you get the sod in the low spots, then finish grade.I believe this method is better than flicking it out into your drains because when your done the road grade is in better shape than it was before. Flicking it might get rid of the crap, but its lowering your road and raising your drains. Good luck... Gramps.

justridinby... a lot of great advise has been given here, and its amazing what can be done with a grader and a bit of positive thinking and experience, but maybe its time for the farmer to open the wallet and give you some decent material to work with as well.

you got that right Micheal , it would be great to work with some good roadbase material , but i have to work with what i have ! a lot of the farmers where i am ,are working off rural assistance grants after the flooding in November so the budget only goes so far . After nearly 10 years of drought where little or no maitainance was carried out these roads are in a pretty poor shape .Thanks for the advice Gramps I really appreciate any tips i can get , the property I'm working on at the moment isn't so much hilly but at the bottom of a large valley with quite a large water catchment area . Most of the erosion was caused through lack of maitianance to stock water dam overflows and the like , plus the old guy who previously owned the property tried to divert water out of natural water courses allowing it to run down road drains scouring it out pretty badly .

How about tips for getting unstuck?Side shift the circle to the side your trying to move toward, lift front tires off ground and side shift the front of the blade over. Did this a few times today and it worked out for me. The ground was reasonably firm i just sunk the rear in some sloppy mud and couldn't get traction...I've seen other operators do this and it worked, which is where i got the idea from...What do ya'll think on the technique?Also, suggestions on working slopes? Need to get them pretty close to grade, working behind a dozer and compactor, i can see the slight hills and dips, but when i get up close to them on the blade i lose em. Is this a by feel kind of thing or do you have suggestions?I want it to look as good as it can, make me look better as an operator and right now im just not happy with it. I told the boss man i would work on it some more when i got some time in between everything else. He says its good enough, most likely they will have a finish hand come back and finish it up.I dont have alot of seat time, but our finish operator is a good guy and has been giving me pointers, so if he says its good then ill be in the seat longer...

Side shift the circle to the side your trying to move toward, lift front tires off ground and side shift the front of the blade over. Did this a few times today and it worked out for me. The ground was reasonably firm i just sunk the rear in some sloppy mud and couldn't get traction...Click to expand...I am the master of getting stuck..and do pretty good getting out to...lol. You got it..sometimes you have to use this along with the blade slide/articulation/circle turn..all depends how bad you're stuckAlso, suggestions on working slopes? Need to get them pretty close to grade, working behind a dozer and compactor, i can see the slight hills and dips, but when i get up close to them on the blade i lose em. Is this a by feel kind of thing or do you have suggestions?Click to expand...Thats where practice comes in..you are right tho as these seem to disappear when you get close. Its a good practice to mark out these places first..survey stake..rock..whatever. That way you know exactly where the small humps/dips are etc. After awhile tho your old eyeball will work better for ya.I dont have alot of seat time, but our finish operator is a good guy and has been giving me pointers, so if he says its good then ill be in the seat longerClick to expand...If he's willing to share his knowledge then take full advantage of it. Good luck with your learning!

Took a shot at finishing up some slopes today, they came out decent and the boss was happy with them. I have seen better, but its not crucial that they are dead on. I take all the advice i can get, and that applies to any machine. I know these guys dont have to tell me anything and could leave me to figure it out on my own, so i cherish the tips they do give. I am a good loader hand, and i dont mind giving advice or tips to up and coming loader hands, or even to operators that have years of seat time. Its simply advice, they can take it or leave it, either way its free of charge...As for getting stuck, i really dont like getting stuck and we have enough equipment around that usually i will wait so i dont tear anything up. If im a ways away from other equipment ill do what i can to get out, so far its been about a 50% success rate...Next question, is there a trick to finishing? Or is it all skill? Like blue topping roads and such...

Oh, I didn't like getting stuck either, but I used to do alot of ditching so it kind of went with the jobNext question, is there a trick to finishing? Or is it all skill?Click to expand...I've worked with a lot of operators..some kept getting better and better..learning new skills and eventually made good finish operators. Others I worked with could only go so far and never made it to that point as a finish operator and never will. Just depends on the person.

Yea i dont think anybody really does, but with our current jobsite, a river bottom its going to happen. Its a part of the territory...I think that really applies to any kind of operating. Some people can do it, others can not. I am not sure if i have what it takes to finish. But only time will really tell. I do know over the last couple of weeks my skill has improved, but it still needs work.Any more tips or tricks to share? I have worked some odd areas and made it look good. Did a tricky slope area with the articulation. How about wheel lean? What kind of situations is that really needed and when is it really usefull? I most often use it on slopes...

Any more tips or tricks to share? I have worked some odd areas and made it look good. Did a tricky slope area with the articulation. How about wheel lean? What kind of situations is that really needed and when is it really usefull? I most often use it on slopes...Click to expand...If you do a search through this grader section, you'll find lots of tips from a good bunch of grader operators. If you did a tricky slope using articulation..then you're well on your way. Lean wheel is a good steering aid and can be used in different applications..slopes, grading etc.Just take your time and think about what your next move is going to be. Learn from your mistakes. You have to remember that operating a grader, as you do so many different things with it...is a continuous learning process. You have to keep the mind set that no matter how good you are, or think you are..you can always pick up something. I've seen guys that thought they knew it all and you couldn't tell them nothing. These are the ones that never go anywhere. As said..sounds like you are taking a keen interest and progressing well..

Hey Truckin4life.... do you have a slopemeter in your present machine?

Nope, no slope meter. I have run a machine with a slope meter and i kind of miss having one.Grader4me: I have spent several hours in these pages reading, absorbing and try to apply new things to my current work. With out this board i would not be as far as i am today!!!!I use the wheel lean for making turns occasionally especially in loose material,I have gotten that mind set a few times during various projects, but thankfully i have snapped out of it. I know i am not the best, and everyday my goal is to do something new or something a little better than i did it yesterday. I think that has been my greatest joy so far, is pushing my self to do better and trying to learn something new.I think the bosses have taken notice of a few "out of the box" idea's i have had to approach certain situations. I dont know how an experience blade hand would approach them, but i know how i did and i got the job done. So thats what matters right?Thanks for all of the input guys, i really appreciate it!As for a slope meter, i didnt take notice how it was mounted in my last machine, but how are they mounted in side the machine? and are what kind of price tag do they carry?

tape a piece of string with a nut to the window if nothing else is available, works in a pinch.

Dwan Hall said:tape a piece of string with a nut to the window if nothing else is available, works in a pinch.Click to expand...Thats a good idea..never thought of that.

Grader4me said:Thats a good idea..never thought of that.Click to expand...No no snuffy,,,, you put the tape on the string, not the nut....bwah ha hha!!!

Thats why it didn't work!

Had these sent to me a while back. I guess this is a good place to show them.

This operator may have had a fixation on his "slope meter" and forgotten to look and plan ahead. Must have been mesmorized by the nut moving back and forth on the string.OMG

nope, i m pretty sure that a slope meter or a nut on a string isnt gonna help him here.

Maybe he had the tape on the nut instead of the string?..lol

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA LMFAO!!! Thats funny right there!

How you do that lol that blade is sunk!

Didn't read the whole thread, but I wish I would have taken some pictures today of a road job. Ran a few different blades but mainly run a cat 143. . Also your water truck driver, and roller hand make a huge difference in the quality and final product. We have slope meters but your eye is your best friend imo. Seat time is where its at, there is many ways to do a job do it the way it works best for you.

On finishing slopes it's as much about what you don't do which is just go back and forth and hope it works out.Finish to me means line and grade.Doesn't matter on the flat or slope.Cut your highs fill the lows, get it to line and grade.On the flat that would be like the shoulder of a road that's low and needs material pushed into it.On a slope until you get the toe of the slope and the top of slope on grade you don't know what you have.It's the same for bluetopping.Cut the cuts, fill the lows, then when you make it pretty it's right.Truckin4life said:How about tips for getting unstuck?Side shift the circle to the side your trying to move toward, lift front tires off ground and side shift the front of the blade over. Did this a few times today and it worked out for me. The ground was reasonably firm i just sunk the rear in some sloppy mud and couldn't get traction...I've seen other operators do this and it worked, which is where i got the idea from...What do ya'll think on the technique?Also, suggestions on working slopes? Need to get them pretty close to grade, working behind a dozer and compactor, i can see the slight hills and dips, but when i get up close to them on the blade i lose em. Is this a by feel kind of thing or do you have suggestions?I want it to look as good as it can, make me look better as an operator and right now im just not happy with it. I told the boss man i would work on it some more when i got some time in between everything else. He says its good enough, most likely they will have a finish hand come back and finish it up.I dont have alot of seat time, but our finish operator is a good guy and has been giving me pointers, so if he says its good then ill be in the seat longer...Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice. Pretty straight forward.Ive spent more time on slopes over the last few days and ive found it to work best for me to not turn my blade as much and let gravity carry the material out the heel of the blade, so i have about half the blade cutting and the other half to follow the last pass. Leaves it clean and neat looking in a quick manner.I took a few hours today working in an area trying to get it as uniform as possible. I didnt run the rippers through it which would have made things much easier. But in working it and re working it a few times the final product came out looking pretty good in my opinion. From what it was, which was a slope by a rough excavator operator just smoothed up, i got it looking fairly sharp. Its not to any kind of grade as far as stakes go, but in the area i worked i got it all as uniform as my eye see's from the seat.I do believe that i will see the imperfections better as time progresses. I can see and feel the slightest differences when im in a properly set up loader. So i would think with some more seat time the fine tuned feel and sight will come around too...Also, just something i have noticed in talking with several different blade hands. I think i can count on one hand the amount of guys who didn't chew, dip, or whatever you want to call it...Seems the best ones i have seen were the heaviest dippers. Just out of curiosity, who in here does dip and does it affect your work in anyway? I used to, but gave it up and wont be going back to it...

Seems the best ones i have seen were the heaviest dippers. Just out of curiosity, who in here does dip and does it affect your work in anyway? I used to, but gave it up and wont be going back to it...Click to expand...Well..I'm gonna tell you a story about that..There was this guy from out Minnesota way that used to be a heavy snuff user. They say he was a real good grader operator..he decided to quit chewin..and after that he went all to hell...couldn't even unravel sod right anymore with a grader...sad..very sad..

Haha, i see!!!!Well i was taken off the Blade on our current project, had to do some shuffling around with equipment going down and operators coming back from vacations.... So me being the one with least experience i got the boot... Which is to be expected. I will continue my reading and question asking here though. I've already read and learned quite a bit...

Was that a serious question come on! Chew should not make or break you lol

It was half serious, i was more curious at how many people who run graders actually chew, i know of 3 personally who dont, out of 14 i can think of....Yes i know it wont make or break you. haha

Well lets see my boss is the best blade hand around here and he use to chew but quit and is still badass on the blade. Our other good blade hand chews, and the other one smokes, couple other blade hands we have had didn't. Its a bad habbit that I hope to quit some day. I took some pics today i need to upload them and post them!

I have done a variety of jobs, but it seems that the best of the best are typically chewers, and occasionally a smoker ( knew one ) Just found it odd was all, i gave it up bout 6 months ago, haven't gone back since and am glad i havent....

Hi guys! My name is Tyler Polk. FnS stands for fast and Smooooth! haha I just found this forum recently. My first post. Little about myself before I give a tip.My "father" Has been a blade hand in Alaska for over 30yrs (never, ever, took ANY time out of his life to teach me how to operate btw) and my uncle (his brother)is a 40yr vet as well ( " on the teach thing). I guess its kinda in my blood.. I found myself on my own @ 15yrs old (32 now) so I worked, for a friend of my moms side, who owned a landscape co. in Phx, AZ running skid steers, loader, backhoe, trencher, gannon etc.Eventually I worked for the union and various dirt contractors building home subdivisions, shopping centers, major streets/freeways/highways, industrial buildings and LOTS of O/X inPhx and Vegas during their "big boom"! I ran scraper for yrs, gannon tractor for yrs, loader, dozier, hoe, etc. I picked up most on my own as far as using whichever "tool" in the shed I had to get a job done. I eventually got on a blade and haven't run anything else for the past 5yrs. Played with automatics, gps, sonar...cool, I guess, for a blade hand who can"t operate or be trusted.... or a good blade hand who has become just....lazy. You REAL blade-men can understand that one rite!? Ha Ha. I had the privileged to have a very special man enter my life named Donnie Mc around 7yrs ago. He is one of those guys that loves to teach, has genius knowledge, an excellent blade-hand and is my best friend to date. He didn't so much teach me how to pull the levers but taught me how to see the "big picture" of a job, the ins and outs of running a job smooth and efficiently, how to spot architect flaws then make 'em work and pretty much how to run the job from the seat of a blade like I currently do.On the side, I am a professional athlete. I travel the world performing at various events like monster truck shows, concerts, town festivals, biker rallies, etc. doing back-flips and other acrobatic maneuvers on a dirtbike called Freestyle Motocross or FMX. You can simply "google" search tyler polk fmx or click:http://www.google.com/search?q=tyle...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-ato see some of my accomplishments.Plates and screws have gotten old and I decided to give up that crap so I moved to Odessa/Midland, TX where the $/work is good.I run jobs from an '05 Cat 120h w/14' moldboard @4600hrs! Don't have a single complaint about this machine! More weight and power would be cool, but don't tell her I said that. ha! For we have been together for 9mo. now.Seems like JDOFMEMI and YelloMtlmilitia know their stuff and gave tips I only learned on my own through T&T. Grader4Me couldn't have said it better about float and back-dragging. And IMO, the backwards board thing.......If I was owner of the co. and seen ya doin' that, I would doc ya an hr. or 2 for wasting time and playing around. I would say, "show-off on your own machine on your own time!" haha! I don't mean any offense to anyone, it's a cool thing to do n' stuff, I couldn't find any Real production in doing it except for making my girlfriend think I was the BEST blade-hand in the whole, wide world! haha! Or confusing my boss when he looked over at the line up in the am...or the time we hired a new guy (pre-Madonna "finish" blade-hand) to help me on this mall parking-lot, he said things like "I forgot more than you know" n' "I was runnin' a blade since you were an itch in yo daddys pants" n' stuff...so I put grease on his door handle and turned his board around! It was sooo funny watching him try to put it back! He was soo mad! He tore off the headlight then, later that day, he backed into a fire hydrant and was terminated. funny stuff... Anyways...Tip:I do this--Never over work my material (like mentioned earlier)-I like to finish Aggregate Base Course with my moldboard rolled all the way back.Though it's nice to roll it forward 2-3 inches to allow for adjustment withoutactivating/adjusting the rams, I'll explain why I don't........Although its hard to judge depth perception do to absolutely no visual of any part of the lower board I would usually use as a "marker", cutting my final passes this way seems to push or mash the rocks down into the material while leaving the fines evenly distributed or spaced in between the rocks. Leaving, IMO, the best finish for a paver. After a numatic roller compacts such a pass, the rocks seem to be embedded into the fines and evenly "poking" up above the fines about a hundredth giving the asphalt mat something to bond to and not "move". It could be a little too "picky", but it works and it's a challenge I've mastered IMO.Rolling your board over to see the cutting edge just pops the rocks out of the material and seems counter productive and messy. + it takes the rocks out of the material leaving you with sand sticking to the drum (if you use a steel wheel roller). Nothing sucks more than chasing rocks around!Also, on a moldboard with lots of hours, 3 or so feet of each end of the board is usually bent back a little. Which cuts the rocks out even deeper in the middle of a pass while rolled over. I got away from that. Besides, I couldn't seem to carry much material before rocks started getting trapped into the "V" angle (you produce by rolling it forward) and just riding up and over the material. Looks like I would make the cut but, put a string on it and always had to take more out. Even with the board at the "choice" cutting angle didn"t work for me. ALL the way back is my preferred method.That's my tip that I picked up along the way....everything else is a piece of cake! -Ty

CAT_MAN said:Was that a serious question come on! Chew should not make or break you lolClick to expand...Oh but it does. I know a graderhand from eastern Canada. He worked for the government there. He decided to quit chewing snuff. He quit by using the "mind over matter theory". Homm....Hommm. Bwah hahha. Anyways to make a long story short, he got crotchety from the withdrawl symptom's. Real crotchety. It actually got so bad at work, all his co-workers took up a collection,, sent the collection money to a contractor in another province, and that contractor hire this fellow, we'll call him "snuffy" for conversation's sake.Well ol "snuffy" he couldn't refuse the big dollars this contractor offered him , so he took a leave of absence from his job, wife, family. While working in the strange land "snuffy" had an urge to take back up chewing. Being in a remote area and no snuff available, "snuffy" tried chewing a moose turd. They fit in his lip individually quite well and he also found he could keep several in his pocket nicely.Well "snuffy" continued to be crotchety and so the contractor returned the money to the original owner's and sent old "snuffy" back to the government job.So you see Catman...... chew does have a huge bearing on an individual and that's all I gonna say about that!!!! ef ef

:falldownlaugh:jawdrop:OMG.....wow! your head has to hurt thinking up a yarn like that.....

Worked with your dad over the years, just getr' done, everyone has their own ideas!!!

I can't post a thread yet so......Question: When I pull my consul forward everything electric shuts down. A/C, lights, etc., and it goes into neutral. I have to pull the consul so far to me that my shifter hits the control bar. A mechanic at Warren Cat said that it may be a short in the electrical harness by the hitch. Anyone else have this problem????

U there any motor graders still on this thread? These postings are OLD!

Golden Oldies!They may be old Flyball, but they are very good and informative posts! I've learned a lot from them.

I AM IRONMAN said:They may be old Flyball, but they are very good and informative posts! I've learned a lot from them.Click to expand...140Ironman-appreciate the comments.. was interested in feed back concerning the GPS system for 140H motor grader.. wasnt sure if Id get feedback on this thread or should post to another site..It looks like the site is monitored so here goes.Been a grader for over thirty-five years have trimble laser system on board grader.; jobs are requesting upgrade to GPS.. (The trend I guess) went to CAT/ Sitechquoted 45000.00 for the complete system Refurbished/no installation (with (approx. installation 55-65K). The system isnt new technology thought there might be another contact available other than Cat dealer/Sitech with a better rate. Even if I was to purchase just the mount sytem.. The GPS computer rental is 4500/month. ideas ?

Flyball, just a couple of questions. How big of a job is it? What kind of job? Highway, parking lot, golf course, or what?Do you want to just rent the system or buy? In my opinion, don't go with a refurbished, if your buying, get brand new, latest electronics. In the price make sure it is installed and the installer is knowledgeable. He should provide at least two days training and make sure it is working correctly. This guy is really good and has owned and operated all of the systems for about 15 years, he installs, trains, and makes sure things are working correctly. Chris at 307-277-4925. If he can't install it where you are, he will know who can.When these systems are done correctly you can count on your grading time will be less than 1/2 of what the other 35 year operators without Topcon are doing. Here is my suggested model. Topcon’s 3D-MC2 system. Very fast and accurate! For the best motor grader for the job, I would suggest the Deere 872G or 772G. Six wheel drive and tall moldboard, it’ll lay out basecoarse so smooth, you won’t believe it!Dozerhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQpJ6e2tTjkGraderhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt9gSe7TocE&feature=relatedCat Bladehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8z3q_BYFlk&NR=1Ironman

FnSTyler, Thanks for the kind words. I always try to share some of what I have picked up along the way.I agree with you on the moldboard all the way back, though it is good to roll it forward some in hard to cut material. It is just more versatile rolled back. Carries more, doesn't unload the weight off of the tires, and actually pushes some weight down on them, plus there is less chance of damaging the slide rails or bottom pivot point in the event you should find a burried rock, pipe, old foundation, etc.I have picked up some useful tricks from the other pros on here over the years. One is the reversed blade. I had not used it until recently, when I found myself cutting out a tight corner in a parking lot. The hard packed clay was tough to cut, and was slippery enough that the front end would not pull around the turn with more than a tiny little cut in front of the blade. I thought about it for a little bit, then tried turning the blade around. The others at the site looked at me like I lost my marbles. I found that with the drivers pulling the blade around the corner, I could take a full cut with the blade, and had it cut down to grade in no time. Then I put things back around the normal way to complete. I figure I saved nearly an hour compared to the trouble I had been having, not to mention the reduced stress on myself and the machine. The hardest part was remembering that the slide went the wrong way when working the lever. I said a thanks to Randy Kreig after I was finished.Meanwhile, I look forward to learning more, and sharing more with all here.Have a great day

Jerry,Yesir, at 32, I lack experience and obviously have never been in a situation where I needed to do the reverse board thing. Or, just always been spoiled with a Deer or case skip/gannon to catch my pad corners n stuff. I was just trying to be a funnyguy on my post. haha. Sometimes I need a breathalizer for my computer! hahaYes I do agree having it rolled forward just a taste helps in the hard compacted stuff.Another thing I like to do is grease the front end and hitch while someone turns and arcs the machine for me. I think it ensures an even amount of grease in the joints. I like to call it the $50,000 tube of grease. Because just like yesterday, while doing a 21acre dirt job here in Odessa, my scraper hand tossed the paddles off! Due to an idler roller coming apart. I asked him if he had greased them at all this week and he responded, "I didn't know those zerts were there." (He must of been thinking about unicorns during our walk through on this machine) So, after lost time and parts, today I got to do the glorious job of putting them back on track. After 9hrs, a trackhoe, a backhoe, blade and about 7 chains w/ binders at 10 different positions, we got it back on track and were able to move dirt for 4hrs into darkness. (can't get a mechanic on short notice in this boomin' industry) So, now I know how to put the flights back on a scraper! The redneck way I guess! Now I gotta play catch-up! Again! Like 75hrs a week isn't enough, this looks like 85-90 this week. All do to not greasing.-TP

flyballgrader,All I got is: Topcom system5 is imo the best. I believe its lazer and gps. But, I may be wrong. I never used the gps. And the gain dial being adjusted correctly helps with the machine overcompensating itself.

The only thing i know is that the only ones who don,t know how to run a grader are the ones getting paid to do it and the professionals are in the coffee shop

A professional is a beginner who never quit!

If you have a plan, you can get a lot done without all the trick stuff, but in todays world you better get to know GPS and total station, becaus I don't care how good you are it will make you faster and better and that's Money in the Bank for who ever you are working for, And that's my story and i'm sticking to it!!!

This has been a fantastic thread, thanks to all who have contributed. This forum is relatively new to me, and addicting. I found this forum when I was looking for undercarriage alternatives for a 287C. The other night I started reading this thread and a couple others, and before I new it it was 4:00 A.M.. What impresses me most besides the wealth of knowledge is the attitude that almost everyone has in their responses; everyone is actually trying to be helpful and informative, sometimes with a good sense of humor added in just for fun.I wish our government could work with the absence of animosity found here. Thank you all!

Well guess I will throw out some things I've learned I do alot of gravel road maitence in my area so that's what my tips will be about. I started running a blade for my dad who does twp work he's ben in the blade seat for 42 yrs now and amazing how much knowledge you can pick up from him. The things I've noticed to keeping gravel roads is you got to establish a crown I like to have about a 5% crown on a 24ft road base. Another thing with gravel roads if you get wash boards and pot holes in your road bed you normally don't have enough crown in your road. I've found the best way to remove washboards and potholes is to cut them all the way out once you got the whole road bed cut out I will pick up the windrow of gravel I cut out I try to keep my left or right front tire on the center of the crown and put the materal I'm pulling in right on top very crucial to not dump on other side of crown and as also very crucial is to drive straight ik Randy has said this before you change your wheel you change your crosslope. I guess that's all I got for now maybe someone will get some pointers out f this.

A question for Cat 140M AWDwhy are you laying your windrow on top of your crown, does it not make it difficult to bring material of your crown to shoulder, if your material is on top of crown how are you holding line, just curious.I always run my tire on top of crown but the heel of my blade kicks material over crown so when I turn around material isn't stacked on crown you have a good wheel mark, and this gives your roller a chance to roll right up to your crown, I realize on gravel road maint you don't use a roller most of the time, like I say just curious, have a Good Day

I can explain that better for ya when I pull the windrow in and set it in the middle of the road on top of the crown in other words once I get it there I blade the windrow off the center to the othere shoulder of the road when blading it off I run the center of the machine down the crown leaving an inch or more of gravel on the crown and the rest gets put in a windrow along side of the road to pick up next time it would be easier if I could post pictures to show you what I do but it's snowing here right now think my road blading days might be done till nex spring if I do get back out I will make suer to take some and post them here

You have a system that works for yousound like you have a system that works my friend, working those gravel roads quite a challegene, it sure make a difference if no other people are maintaining what you have established. good luck with the cold and snow, just cold here so far but i'm sure the snow is coming.

I, like Tvan, prefer to take the material across the crown far enough to be able to pull it down the other side without leaving excess off of the toe. I prefer to have the blade articulated such that both side rear wheels are on the same side of the crown. This helps avoid the inconsistency in grade of running on the material beyond the crown, and having to chase the grade. The high side front steering axle wheel will be slightly over the crown. My next pass (on the other side of the crown) will not be articulated, again to keep all drive axles on the same side of the crown. The toe of the blade will actually be off of the surface a bit. When I have a roller chasing me, I insist that the roller NEVER run straight down the center of the road, flattening out the crown, but rather workup to the crown always keeping most of the roller width on one side or the other. This is often difficult for a person who is not accustomed to feeling the slope, so I ask them to use my rear tire tracks as a guide.I am not the best blade operator, so I have to use little methods like this to get good results. As Tvan also mentioned, if you have a method that works for you that's great. We all go about things a bit different!

Yes that's for suer everyone has there own way the thing that annoys me the most Is if someone else is blading the road you do makes a big headache for both operators I'm lucky enough I'm the only one who maintains the roads in the summer so they all stay the way I want them to be Looks like I'm going to be out plowing snow tomorrow got 4 inches of snow on the ground here wind is blowing hard to probably have some nice drifts the bust in the morning

Good luck plowing. Do use a plow? I use a One Way plow, it works pretty good.

Yes I do I use a v plow and and a wing hopefully I don't need the v plow tomorrow might carry it with me just in case I need it I will try to take some pics while I'm out

I dump the windrow over the crown also on the first pass. We have rock ledges in a lot of our hills so over time we get some fist sized rocks in the road. If I don't get the windrow over the crown some of those rocks end up in the center of the road. The operator on a road that I drive has a lot of crown in his road and leaves materal in the road. I have several times crossed over the crown with our car and had materal hit under the car. That could be bad if it was a rock.

Clayton, after yrs. of operating you will know where grade is within a fraction. It is all feel and that comes with experience. NEVER be afraid to try something new. Put material where you want it and take away what doesn't belong. Tricks- speed and angle putting a road windrow back for shaping is to have combination correct ( depends on wet or dry material) in a pinch slide toe out and grab some turf to carry, it will keep material from spilling out if ya got it wrong and keep things right till you correct it.

I was reading through this thread and have been trying some of the techniques talked about and they have been working for me. I'm a Asphalt Paving Foreman by trade but work is a little slow right now and I have been learning to operate a Motor Grader. I wanted to grease the blade circle on the 14H that I've been running and the mechanic said NO!!! His explanation was the company went to greaseless bushings and "They don't need grease" Is he full of it or is he right?

The guy is full of it. What greaseless bushings? Nonetheless, the established procedure among all long-term users of motor graders that I have worked for is to leave the circle dry, especially if you are in sand. The M Series may require another policy.

I never grease (nor would think of) the blade circle, it attracts dirt.Check for wear and replace wear plates as needed.

Maybe I misread the post by Randy Krieg where he talked about turning the blade around a greasing the circle. Am I wrong or was he talking about a different area of the machine?

The Tackman said:Maybe I misread the post by Randy Krieg where he talked about turning the blade around a greasing the circle. Am I wrong or was he talking about a different area of the machine?Click to expand...You do not grease a circle on any H or M series motor graders. They have wear strips that is a soft metal to keep from wearing out the circle. If you do anything use dry graphite spray.

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.co...se-your-circle&p=195544&highlight=#post195544Mr. Krieg's response is towards the end.

rsherril said:https://www.heavyequipmentforums.co...se-your-circle&p=195544&highlight=#post195544Mr. Krieg's response is towards the end.Click to expand...Yes that is a good detailed explanation. Randy is one smart cookie. I sure enjoy his pictures too!! I do not grease the teeth on my grader either. I still use the graphite spray. Sometimes twice a day if turning the circle a lot. I have 16,000 hours on the 160H that I operate and it is still in fair condition. Rather it be grease or graphite you still need to lubricate the teeth and gear. The book does indicate grease but I still prefer graphite.

Randy Krieg said:Remember guys the circle has teeth 360 degrees. Those back teeth aren’t for looks, they’re made to be used.Click to expand...I all but forgot Randy. Thanks for this post. Back in '94 I was working over in California running a 16G. They had a 150' high slope that they didn't pull when the last company had moved the muck. I was hired because the last fellow didn't have the skills and you had to have some special training which I already had. I had never been slung off a slope before. When I say slung, I mean held up by cables going up to the hinge point attached to an old 9 set up for laying pipe. He held me up on the slope. The slope was about 1/2 mile long in the shape of an eyebrow and the tolerance was + - .02'. It only took about 2 passes backing up that I figured it was going to be a long summer so I started racking out and positioning 180 out then making a reverse pass. Got pretty good at it and the slope only took about 1 1/2 weeks. Now I do it whenever the need arises. Actually never thought about it in cul de sacs but I'm going to give it a whirl on Tuesday when I return to work.

This has been a very good thread. I have a few things I didn't see mentioned. They may possibly have been mentioned but I'm actually only half way though all the postings. Here goes;1. I so commonly see operators "finishing" with their board rolled all the way over. Typically I do not use this practice. I do not need to see where my edge is, no need to have it rolled over. What I see happening is when it is rolled over you wear all the sharp off your edges and then have to go burn them off when you are in hard material to cut your material down to grade. This is not so much of the problem I see as to what rolling your board over does to your material. Rolling the board over does not process the material being cut. Your lows end up full of rock. Hope and pray the soils tester does not take a test in one of those rock ridden holes....you will fail.2. If you want to carry material uphill (like wiping rock over a berm, roll the board over, the material will work its way up without falling down.3. Know the width of your machine, the width of your cut. Width of your tire tracks. Example, If you are cutting terraces on house pads and the hinge has a 1' offset from your stake line. You can drive a straight line from outside of stake to outside of stake and use your tire track a "painted" line to start your slope. You can use this for figuring out where the crown is on a road or figuring where the crown is in a dogleg with bubble on the elbow of the dogleg.4. When working with 2-D and 3D electronics that require cross slope, you must keep the knuckles of you loists perpendicular to the grade you are cutting. If you are articulated, your cross slope WILL be off. If using a fixed target on one side it is best to define grade under your target then freehand screeding the grade your target side laid down and use your target side as the toe for the rest of your passes. It is good to teach your scraper operator how to "read" the grade with an electronic machine. If you slip tires, you still have cut to go and the scraper should remove the entire windrow in this area. If you come off grade you are obviously low and will have to make another pass over area so the scraper should give you some fill. Teach your scraper operator to keep a consistent wind row height for you to work with. Consistency when working with electronics I have found to be the key especially on a machine with a lot of slack in the various joints and circle. Before you set your sonar depth, have a load of material on your blade. All the slack is pulled out of the board and it will cut better grade when pinging off of the wire or curb.5. If you are running a support blade, don't let your slopes get away from you. Make sure you pull you pull your fill slopes up before the grade checker gets to them with wood. Make sure you pull your cut slopes down before your grade checker pulls his wood down also.6. When running a support blade, it is kind of pointless to constantly keep grading road that is in good shape. It is a waste of time. Instead, spend more time on the bad areas of road. It will also give you more time to pioneer new roads to new cuts and fills should the spread have to move.7. When finishing, go slow. It is better to cut it right the first time than to have to make a dozen passes over the same grade over and over.8. When pulling corrections I prefer to only pull my correction areas and 1/4 them. If a light brush is needed after the grade is finished, then so be it, but wait until the grade is sold. If you constantly go over grade that will sell, you risk having to regrade what was already good grade.9. Verify that your scraper is cutting flat. If your scraper is cutting flat and the operator chingers your grade, it was your fault. Take the opportunity to see where he dug into your grade and cut the hump out and re quarter your grade....you weren't on grade to begin with or the operator would not have under cut you (unless it is in a vertical curb or coming out of an apron or something like that) Push your bulk out of your corners and doglegs to allow the scraper a chance to set on good grade. Remember, he can be your best friend or worst enemy. More often than not, I see blade operators blame the scraper hand when it was the blade that did not give the scraper operator the opportunity to pick up good grade.10. If cutting curb grade it is a good idea to know if the curb will be hand formed or machine laid. Typically hand formed curb you will want to undercut whereas machine curb you will want to leave about .1' high. Before you make the grade for the machine curb, scarify, process and cut all of your bones out of the material, then roll it back in and roll and cut your grade. You don't want to leave a bunch of bones in the grade. It tears up the curb machine and makes for a rougher curb for you to finish next to later. If supporting a curb crew, wipe out all of the clean out piles, green concrete at termination and if you are up to it all of the material that might have made it under the shoe of the form on the curb machine (this shouldn't happen if you cut your grade correctly unless their form is worn out and needs built up.) It is better to incorporate all this green concrete into fill instead of allowing it to line up your sub grade or bouncing over later.11. Get your grade as close as possible before moving your material over your hubs. The more hub passes you make, the more likely you are to rip one out. I say if you don't rip some out you are not getting the grade close enough. More often than not if you are not rubbing paint off you will have a .02' (1/4") hump in the grade (which isn't bad and will still probably sell) which can start you running high between your hubs. You know if you are cheating your hubs, don't be afraid to try to screw the grade down to the top of the wood. Again, you will tear out some hubs, weather it be dragging a whisker into hard material (have your gunnea chaser loosen the material around your hubs just a hair below grade the length of the whisker and you will not tear them out in these situations) or having a stubby hub or even that the hub was driven in at an angle and the whisker was set on toward the low side. You still have to get the material down to grade.12. I like to spin off big flat grade. How else are you going to balance grade 50' between hubs with no 1/4s? I guarantee you can do it in half the time spinning it off. Some people look at you like you are a greenhorn for doing it. Spinning grade balances the grade, aids in compaction and gives you a very good surface to work on. Some years back I had a number of rake pads in a sub division to finish. Finished over 90 pads in an 8 hour shift by spinning them off. Boss looked very differently at it after that. It is still common practice at that company today.13. If your grade is tight when starting off, your edge grade is tight and you have a load on your board...you should effectively be able to control your grade by only moving your toe side of the board. if you are cutting deep your heel will be riding over your grade. if you are digging into you heel, you need to drop your toe side, you are cutting high.14. I like grading my start points in reverse. It is easier to control the movement of the blade that way. The blade comes down gradually as your tires fall off of whatever it is you are cutting away from whereas you have all sorts of stuff going on if you take a dive at it with your rear tires coming off of it. If you take it forward I like to roll the board about 20% over and make sure your tires are coming off the surface square. If you are on grade you can make a quick adjustment by rolling your board up to come out of the ground or roll it down to take more cut. Just remember....every machine has its fixed points that grade is cut from. A dozer is the tracks, a loader the front wheels, a scraper the rear wheels, a grade tractor the rear wheels and your blade the rear wheels. Get set on grade and the rest is easier.If anyone disagrees, it's Ok. Its just my opinion and things I think I have picked up over the years. Remember, everyone has their own way of doing things.

Truckin4life said:Nope, no slope meter. I have run a machine with a slope meter and i kind of miss having one...........and are what kind of price tag do they carry?Click to expand...Truckin4life: the inexpensive poor mans slope meter. You need a magic marker, a clear tube from home depot about the size of a pencil, 2 caps for the tube and a bit of mineral oil and a 4' level and tape measure. Mount the tube up each side of your windshield using some fine wire to wire the tube to the screws that hold the window trim on. Fill the tube up with mineral oil (it moves slower than using water, notice how slow a kuker ranken hand level is compared to a seco with the green bubble?) so that the oil goes about half way up each side of your tube. Position your 4' level on the windshield ledge and level out your blade until your level is set. mark your tube on each side with a line. Then measure out 1%, 2% etc. Works really good for about $4 compared to $150 and having to go through the same mounting procedure.

Durtmvr, a lot of good points in your post. Question, regarding # 12, could you please explain what you mean by "spin off big flat grade"? Does this mean that you like to work big square and level pads in a circular motion?Also, I don't know what a rake pad is, but doing one every 5.33 minutes sounds pretty impressive!Thanks

Oxbow said:Durtmvr, a lot of good points in your post. Question, regarding # 12, could you please explain what you mean by "spin off big flat grade"? Does this mean that you like to work big square and level pads in a circular motion?Also, I don't know what a rake pad is, but doing one every 5.33 minutes sounds pretty impressive!ThanksClick to expand...I would start on a rake section (a rake is where your pads have very little step between the pads. say there is .10 between your pads. The terrace side of the pad can be lifted .05 and the hinge side of the pad can be dropped .05 and the pads can still remain within the .10 tolerance given to sell the grade)at the highest side of the lots. I would trim the lot from front to back and try to get it on grade. Then I would make an edge pass along the back of the lot line and attempt to put it to grade. Then I would cut grade on the lowest pad from back to front, then the front of lot back to where I started. When getting to the point in which I started, I'd run the blade around in circles trying to hit the grade I had just screeded off. I typically split each pass down the middle of the board. You will not make a HUGE circle with the blade, yet circles that are the size of the lots from front to back. You will go over your work repeatedly which will aid in compaction and will gradually fill holes and knock down humps. I like to train my scraper hands to spin off in front of me. I can finish pads with a scraper using this technique. When you hit the end you will be surprised at how uniform it is. If you left a hump in it, you will easily see it. The final step is to brush the pad off from center out. Unless the pads adjoining the set you just spun are higher, then brush from back of pad to front of lot. Done. You can use this technique when finishing large pads as well. I like to work in circles with laser control especially. I built a job that had 12 40 acre ponds using laser control. The basins had to be +/-.02 which I could not understand as they were to be ripped when the grade was finished. I set the laser up in the middle of the pond and started at the high end with the 14H. I had to get the outer limits of the ponds down to grade as we were only supplied with a single laser tracker for the blade. (Dual trackers respond in half the time and are the best way to go when using laser controls IMO) Then I would run with the laser on the toe side and freehand the grade on the heel. Make certain to not put yourself in a situation where you have to make tight turns, thus start at one end but when you turn around on your edges run down the middle. This way you finish the topside where you started your bottom side and end the bottom side at the end of the grade. 2 final windrows to clean up. A lot of what I just described goes back to what I said earlier about training your scraper operators what to look for. This particular job I had 2 633s finishing for me running balls out. Teach them also not to break the beam between the laser and your blade. Teach them to keep your windrows consistent, have them watch for wheel spin, there is still cut left if you are breaking traction, have them watch for voids where you need fill, if there is no windrow, it is low. If the windrow gets heavy, they need to set in beside your windrow and muck some material out, then if they have time come take 3/4 of the windrow before you get to it. If they undercut it, it's no big deal, they can always drop some in before you get back to it. $.12 a square yard it cost us to finish those ponds. Dirt was flying everywhere and the owner had a big smile on his face.

DurtmvrYou have given out a lot of good advice here and in your other posts. I have enjoyed reading it, and would enjoy even more working with people like you who understand the finer points of getting work done efficiently. I had a great crew like that once, but only a couple of guys left that understand now since there has been no work to speak of for about 5 years now. With tips like you posted, I remember grading a 180 acre pond to +0.05, -0.00, and selling all the grade in 12 days with one blade, one dozer to rough in, and 2 push pulls to cut and fill. No eggbeaters on the job.

Interesting reading guys!! I don't understand the tight grade on the ponds. Is this the bottom that you are talking about?

OldandWorn said:Interesting reading guys!! I don't understand the tight grade on the ponds. Is this the bottom that you are talking about?Click to expand...I don't understand the tight grade to this day. The floor of the ponds sloped at 1% from the South to the North in the ponds. The purpose of these ponds is to recharge the aquafer with water obtained from the Colorado River. The pond floors were ripped and cross ripped 3' deep when the floors were completed. 32°14'5.08"N 111°14'31.34"WInfo on that jobhereMoved the dirt in 4 months at a cost of $.62 a cube.If you look at the photos the intake side is the low side of the ponds.

durtmvr said:I all but forgot Randy. Thanks for this post. Back in '94 I was working over in California running a 16G. They had a 150' high slope that they didn't pull when the last company had moved the muck. I was hired because the last fellow didn't have the skills and you had to have some special training which I already had. I had never been slung off a slope before. When I say slung, I mean held up by cables going up to the hinge point attached to an old 9 set up for laying pipe. He held me up on the slope. The slope was about 1/2 mile long in the shape of an eyebrow and the tolerance was + - .02'. It only took about 2 passes backing up that I figured it was going to be a long summer so I started racking out and positioning 180 out then making a reverse pass. Got pretty good at it and the slope only took about 1 1/2 weeks. Now I do it whenever the need arises. Actually never thought about it in cul de sacs but I'm going to give it a whirl on Tuesday when I return to work.Click to expand...We had done that a lot as well. We had an eye welded to the grader for a clevace to be attached to. Notice I said had done that. Now days the state prefers we walk slope in with a dozer leaving the grouser marks so seed can stay on the slope instead of washing away. They used to want them slick as a baby's bottom.

Question I am a green horn when it comes to running a grader, I run a cat143h, I struggle with crowning a road, I do not have a bubble or slope control on the grader, is there a way to guess, say a 4% slope would be without a bubble or a cross slope?

denverbroncos#7 said:Question I am a green horn when it comes to running a grader, I run a cat143h, I struggle with crowning a road, I do not have a bubble or slope control on the grader, is there a way to guess, say a 4% slope would be without a bubble or a cross slope?Click to expand...I only have maybe 2500 hours of blade experience so others on here will be better advisors, but two things come to mind to help you:1) Buy a slope bubble personally. They cost around $60, but then you know what a 2% vs 4% feels like.2) Pay strick attention to where your rear tires are in relation to the crown. I like to articulate about half way when taking material over the crown, keeping my rear tires on one side of the crown and the front tires somewhat straddleing the crown. On the next pass I run straight pulling material away from the crown. Again, the rear tires remain definitevely on the other side of the crown. This helps me in that it keeps the rear tires on consistent grade, and away from inconsistent compaction of the material once it has crossed the crown.I started doing this because of my lack of experience, and the need for a method that would help me get the intended result. In other words, using the design of the machine to help.In almost all, if not all equipment, be aware of what determines the grade. Scrapers is rear tires, loaders is front tires, blades-rear tires, even dozers-the rear of the tracks as the front (at least when they are bigger than the fixed frame dozers) oscillate. Even excavators (track hoes), things work so much easier when the track frame is sitting appropriate to the task (if you want to dig level, make sure you have the machine sitting level.I hope this helps!

GuysGreat thread,,...just one point of clarification regarding the discussion on grease or no grease on the circle. The recommendation is for grease on the circle pinion regardless of operational conditions, dirt, sand, etc. There is extensive data showing the benefits of greasing the circle pinion even when working in the most abrasive materials. Let me know if anyone wants the details.

gilledp said:GuysGreat thread,,...just one point of clarification regarding the discussion on grease or no grease on the circle. The recommendation is for grease on the circle pinion regardless of operational conditions, dirt, sand, etc. There is extensive data showing the benefits of greasing the circle pinion even when working in the most abrasive materials. Let me know if anyone wants the details.Click to expand...Good point, I had to go down to our shop for clarification from the operators manual. I'm new to grading 2 1/2 years and new to the forum. I enjoyed finding out that the circle pinion needs grease. lol I have been applying coat after coat of dry graphite before operation. Not to many "operators" where I am, though some have been running them 30+ years. Not to belittle them, I just appreciate those few exceptional operators. Anyway, thanks everyone for all the info.I do have one question though, I was reading the techniques from the link about using a graders features to build roads better, and I could not see or read the picture illustrations on the page, does anyone know the source of those pictures so I can find a copy I can read and see.Will

Runamuk said:Good point, I had to go down to our shop for clarification from the operators manual. I'm new to grading 2 1/2 years and new to the forum. I enjoyed finding out that the circle pinion needs grease. lol I have been applying coat after coat of dry graphite before operation. Not to many "operators" where I am, though some have been running them 30+ years. Not to belittle them, I just appreciate those few exceptional operators. Anyway, thanks everyone for all the info.I do have one question though, I was reading the techniques from the link about using a graders features to build roads better, and I could not see or read the picture illustrations on the page, does anyone know the source of those pictures so I can find a copy I can read and see.WillClick to expand...I accidentally deleted the part where no one around here greases the circle pinion.

Randy Krieg said:Remember guys the circle has teeth 360 degrees. Those back teeth aren’t for looks, they’re made to be used. The practice of finishing a cul-de-sac in reverse or maybe even getting it close (my choice) makes great sense if you’re not running an all wheel drive machine. The forces created by the moldboard angle and laterally moving material over comes the front tires traction coefficient many times. It only takes about 60 seconds to turn it around. I can turn our 16 foot moldboard on our 14H around in about 70 seconds, just over a minute. That time includes the time spent pulling the pin and repositioning the linkbar. I always do it on the right side, I put the pin in the far right hole, swing the drawbar, circle and moldboard up beside the machine with the moldboard facing straight up at the sky, circle the moldboard clockwise and side-shift the left end out over the top of the right front tire completely retracting the cylinder (H Series), then retract the left lift cylinder, extend the right lift cylinder, keep rotating clockwise and retracting the centershift cylinder at the same time. It’s all simultaneous motion. This brings the right end of the moldboard (soon to become the left) under the S bend in the main frame while the left end (soon to become the right) is rolling right down behind and beside the right front tire. As soon as I get the moldboard back under the main frame I reposition the linkage if necessary. If the machine is equipped with grade/slope control then the cable to the rotation sensor has to be specially routed or it will get torn right in half. Every machine I operate I take the time to reroute the cable so that it’s possible to turn the circle and moldboard around. The picture below shows the way I generally park the machine at night; circle and moldboard facing back with the tires off the ground. This position exposes the front circle drive teeth so we can apply grease every day (like the book says). These are the teeth that are being used 99% of the time we’re working. Every couple days I scrap off the old dirty grease using a drywall spatula and every couple weeks I wash the teeth with solvent. This positioning also gets the weight off the tires at night. Don’t want any flat spots in the tires come morning. Many times we get in and have to start finishing to hubs first thing in the morning. In the last training class I taught I made it manditory to graduate. They had to be able to proficiently reposition the linkage, clean the top of the moldboard using the linkage, pull a back slope and park the machine at night with the moldboard facing back.In the other pictures, which are dark, but if you look closely you can see the moldboard is turned around on the 16M. This works great for squeegeeing the water on top of the ice and filling the small holes and accelerating the freeze time. You can rub the ice (snow & water mixture) and not cut into it. Turning the moldboard around on this 16M with a 2 foot extension requires a little more caution and it helps if you run the front tires up on a pile, this makes it easier to swing the moldboard extension under the steps. It would be real easy to tear the steps right off the machine if you don’t know what you’re doing. That applies to any grader not just the 16M.I also turn the moldboard around for finishing away from bridge abutments and will explain this more in detail later. I turn it around and articulate for cleaning some wet ditches also. Like I said they put those teeth there for a reason.I will photograph this entire procedure step by step when I get time and post it. I will also add more to this thread in general, but right now I have to get ready to travel again.This part is for all you younger guys that like adventure; I’m actually on my two weeks R&R from the Chevron project right now, but got a phone call yesterday morning. We were just awarded a hazardous cleanup project off the Northern coast of Alaska. It’s an old “Defense Early Warning” radar site. So I have to go get baseline blood work done today then spend the next 4 days in training, yeap right through the weekend so that we can be ready to fly back to Deadhorse the first of next week. We are going to haul the material 50 miles across the sea ice back to Prudhoe Bay where it will be put in special containment. I look at this as another great adventure, which I get to be a part of and the pay is fantastic (so is the food). They don’t call me to go on these details because they like the way I look or the things I say, they call me for one reason and one reason only; because I can operate a motor grader. My father told me over 30 years ago while I was riding in a grader with him and watching his every move, “Get good on one of these son and you will never have to look for a job”. That statement has rung true so many times in my life that I’ve lost count. It’s a great career! Don’t ever pass up the chance to get on one.Regards, RandyClick to expand...Very good post Randy. I reverse grade all the time. I have had many a "foreman" or "super" get pissed off about it too. I don't understand why. I was doing some today in a retention basin corner where the wall spoils were piled up. I needed the dirt in the street near the retention basin and the walls needed backfilled and the retention needed cleaned up after drywell spoils and some RCP installation.The first photo is of the finished product. Wish I had taken a photo of the train-wreck that was present before I started. The loose material and the volume of the material would not allow timely removal of the dirt. Grading forward would have only put my steer tires in the wall. This retention took me 45 minutes to clean up. I started grading backwards from the corner and established slope grade on each wall, then I established grade on the floor in the corner. I then turned back 180 and pushed it all into the street cleaning up my slopes and building the floor as I went. Only big pain in the butt was the utilities located behind curb, a drywell and I had to save an RCP marker (for a future headwall) which I swing tied to the wall. The photos don't really do it justice. Looks pretty rough, but it will dress up nice in a few minutes with a box grader.

I also use backwards blading to key in the corners of big step pads. It is easier to have 1 correction when your front wheels drop off of the slope instead of making 2 sets of corrections when each set of drivers comes off the slope. Also very useful and necessary when working around curb, especially green curb. I use grading backwards in many situations making grade behind the curb. Parkway grading behind the curb or walls around utilities and in tight places. I always finish my AB and Subgrade around aprons in reverse. Again, it is easier to make 1 correction instead of several.A few months ago, the dirt crew had jumped a fill a bit too soon. The perimeter fencing was not removed before they started to fill the edge of the pads. The dirt rolling over the side of the fill laid over the construction fence. The only plausible way I could see to remove the dirt without damaging the fence panels was to roll the dirt up the slope in reverse hanging the steers downhill. Had this not been done like this, certainly, my drives would have ended up on top of the fence damaging the fence and probably the blade. 30 panels were removed in 3 hours buried under 2 to 3 feet of dirt. None were destroyed.Another useful place is around existing walls where a steep slope is called for from the wall to the pad you are sitting on. I like to pull them backwards using my steer tire to strike of the hinge and use the tire width as an offset from the wall. Taking the back of the machine out of the equation makes the chance of sticking the ripper carriage into the wall. The visibility is also better and being articulated in such a manner it allows an extremely steep angle on the board, keeps the board and front steer from "skating" into the wall. It is possible to lay all 14' of board on a 1' tall slope making the "ditch" at the toe very shallow. This very shallow undercut will not require much compaction and will be lost when pulling the dirt from the toe simply by running over the toe with the drive tire.

denverbroncos#7 said:Question I am a green horn when it comes to running a grader, I run a cat143h, I struggle with crowning a road, I do not have a bubble or slope control on the grader, is there a way to guess, say a 4% slope would be without a bubble or a cross slope?Click to expand...Get some Velcro from WalMart. I prefer the thick industrial Velcro. Buy a cheap torpedo level from Home Depot or Harbor Freight tools. Apply the Velcro to the ledge between your tach and speedometer. Put the little torpedo level there on the flat of the black plastic panel. 4% should be cutting about 1/4 of your bubble off over the outside line. Cheap, quick little guide to make sure you are staying near grade.

In hang a nut on a string from the top of the windshield frame about 18 in. Long. Put marks on the windshield glass with a sharpie. Works for me.

When I was running our township grader I had a cheap level made for leveling a motor home stuck on the windshield. It told me how many inches one side was higher than the other. I figured the width of the grader was somewhere close to the width of a motor home. Close enough to give me an idea of where I was anyway. It also came with one to measure the slope from front to back. I installed that also but didn't use it very often. After a while you will get a pretty good feel for where you need to be.

I am new to grading and purchased an old Galion. It has hydraulic controlled blade and front wheels and everything else is manual. I am interested in the discussion about the bubble or slope control to achieve the desired slope in the road. I have no accurate way of telling what my blade setting is after I start grading, so will a slope control help if I do not know when my blade is level? Is there a way to "zero" the blade so I can tell when it is level? I am trying to get the connection between the cab being plumb and the blade being level. On my old grader, this does not happen. Presently, I just start work from the section of road that is close to the desired grade and work from there and eyeball the work. I jump down to look at the grade from ground level from time to time. I am hoping someone will have some advice for helping to get the correct slope.

Ole Gal said:I am new to grading and purchased an old Galion. It has hydraulic controlled blade and front wheels and everything else is manual. I am interested in the discussion about the bubble or slope control to achieve the desired slope in the road. I have no accurate way of telling what my blade setting is after I start grading, so will a slope control help if I do not know when my blade is level? Is there a way to "zero" the blade so I can tell when it is level? I am trying to get the connection between the cab being plumb and the blade being level. On my old grader, this does not happen. Presently, I just start work from the section of road that is close to the desired grade and work from there and eyeball the work. I jump down to look at the grade from ground level from time to time. I am hoping someone will have some advice for helping to get the correct slope.Click to expand...Read the previous posts on this subject. As you will see there some ways to measure slope that are cheap to free or you can get more expensive gauges if you like. The first grader that I ran had a torpedo level on it and the other two I mounted a cheap motor home level. Both worked well for what I needed.

Thanks for your reply, farmer45. I do intend to make a slope gauge. Do it yourself builders in the early days, sometimes used a hose with water in it to find level on all 4 corners of a house. I plan to use 1/2 " clear tubing with red transmission fluid in it and mount it down the left side , across the bottom of the window and up the right side. I will find surface I know is level and park the grader there and then mark the tubes where the fluid is for level. I will cap the ends of the tubing and make air holes so the fluid can move up and down. Since the cab is four foot wide, it will be fairly easy to figure a slope. I can mark the tubing in inches and know what slope I have for every four foot. But even though I know what slope the machine sits at, how can I tell where my blade is? I have no experience with new graders and very little with my old one. Do they have instruments or controls that indicate blade level? If I park on level ground and lower the blade to the ground, I can raise the blade on one side and see how many inches the blade is up on one side and how much the other side went down. Actually the work I am doing now on the family tree farm does not require a precise slope, I just like making the dirt lane properly graded. The lane has not been touched for 40 years and has some serious erosion on some of the hills, and the slope to the wrong side of the lane. At first, I ran the grader with the wheels in the rut, a foot below grade, until I got some soil moved over to fill the rut. (Now I am having fun) When I back up, I keep the wheels on top of the loose soil to pack it in the rut. (I have no packer) Eventually I get a decent uphill grade and a ditch on the correct side. I guess only time will tell if I have too much slope for that slippery red clay dirt in VA. As I try to finish and produce a lane that will be good for another couple of years, I want to measure the slope. If the slope gauge tells me the grader cab is level or not level, this does not tell me the blade position. The grader could be leaning way over as when I start the job and the blade might be nearly level. I hope I do not sound argumentive. I am just learning to grade and there is something I do not understand about getting my blade to the correct slope but I am not sure what that is so I can ask properly. I'll try. How does a slope gauge in my cab help me keep my blade at the desired slope?

The way the slope meter works is that when you are moving forward the back wheels and the slope meter show what your blade did 10 ft ago. Need more or less slope adjust the blade. I do not know of anything that will show what you are asking.

why not use your water level idea on the circle .you would have to attach something up right from the circle to hold the end's up(round rod,rebar,angle iron) but it would give you your cross slope at the blade in real time.

Thanks for your reply, 51kw. At least now I know that is something I will have to learn by experience.

Thanks for your reply, 51kw. At least now I know that is something I will have to learn by experience. clintm, I like the idea of putting a gauge on the circle. I will look at the grader today to find a good location. I will post a picture if I can design something that works. Thanks.

The slope of the cab will be the slope of the road. You don't really need to know the slope of the blade in relation to the cab part of the grader. I think that you will find that you will have to adjust the slope of the blade as you grade. If the slope of the road which will be the slope of the cab gets to much you will have to lower the heel of the blade or raise the toe or a combination of both. If the slope gets to flat you will do the opposite. If you are grading a narrow road or lane and trying to put a crown in the middle while straddling the center of the road with the back of the grader that is difficult to do. I don't know how to tell you to do that other than to eyeball it. I went to several seminars on how to care for gravel roads and one thing they all stressed was not to straddle the center line with the back of the grader. That wasn't to hard to do on the roads that I graded but on occasion someone would ask me to touch up their driveway that wasn't wide enough to do that. That was always a challenge.

I just returned from a weekend of grading a dirt lane in the woods. It was a very steep hill and had deep erosion and drops and rises. Because of the lay of the land, I sloped the lane to one side rather than putting a crown in the road. The dips and rises in the lane made it difficult to establish the line for the wheels and blade to follow. At the bottom of the hill, I put the blade behind the left front wheel an slightly past the outside of the wheel so I could cut a little soil from the bank to fill in the low spots. The right wheels would drop into the ruts and of course the blade would also drop on the right side, ruining the slope I was trying to establish. After many passes I got enough dirt moved to fill the erosion and the grader would maintain a decent slope without tilting to one side. All this has helped me understand what you say about the cab having slope or not. The more the cab remained constant, the easier it became to keep the blade at the slope I needed. it was great fun and I am learning a lot about properly sloping and grading this lane.

It sounds like you did good. I found that there isn't just one way to do things. There is a difference in the soil and the lay of the land and moisture that all affect the way grading works. While you can get advice and pointers ( and I encourage you to keep asking) you will learn the most with experience. Don't be afraid to try something different. You should be able to fix your mistakes with an extra pass or two. It will also be a lot easier to keep the lane in shape if you touch it up regularly and not let it get back to where it was. It's amazing how fast a road can go to pot if it isn't maintained for a while. When I graded roads you could drive every road in the township with a car if needed. After two years of only being bladed once or twice at the most I would not recommend driving a couple of they without 4 wheel drive to help pull you out of some of the ditches that have washed across the road.

Going uphill seemed to be the best technique for getting the lane leveled. The left side was the ditch side and the toe of the blade behind the left front wheel. I have read that some operators prefer working the right side of the road, but my grader is set up to work the left side and the blade extends past the circle a foot more on the right than on the left of the circle. On my old grader the adjustments are mostly bolts and nuts, so it takes some time to make a change and honestly , I have not figured out the logic of all the adjustments. I need a Galion grader manual to tell me what each adjustment does, but cannot find one. I am using only two variables now, turning the circle to make cutting easier in hard clay or pushing the windrow further across the road and also the height adjustment. This makes it less complicated for me while I am learning. The blade tilt seems to be good for cutting and the soil is rolling nicely and crumbling well. I love my old grader and it is getting the job done in spite of it's limitations and mine! The lane is a mess and makes turns between trees, goes up and down hill and narrow. No place to turn around in some sections, so I back up and try to pack loose soil with the wheels as I back. (Backing is truly a skill to be learned when you have close turns!) The lane is narrow so the middle of the lane did not get packed. It was high in the middle of the lane to start with so maybe it will not be too bad. Some family members had stopped going to the cabin in the woods because they could not drive their cars. The lane has not been touched with machines since the bulldozer first cut the lane 50 years ago. This is a good practice lane for me since it would be hard to make it worse! The only unfortunate part of fixing the road is ruining the 4 wheeling fun in the mud for my sons!

I normally put the lift cylinders in float to take pressure off the pin. Then unlock it then use the side shift to move the circle over. If it doesn't line up I also use the blade slide to get it far enough over....just wondering what machines are you guys all driving.

I always told my girls that you have to grade with your ass. You can easily tell the angle as you sit. you can feel if you are level. just common sense.

Stone970 said:I normally put the lift cylinders in float to take pressure off the pin. Then unlock it then use the side shift to move the circle over. If it doesn't line up I also use the blade slide to get it far enough over....just wondering what machines are you guys all driving.Click to expand...I normally flip the switch and then wiggle the sideshift lever to get it too come out. From there everything gets slid to wherever necessary to get it lined up to where it'll pop in again. I just got used to doing it that way for changing blades in the shop. You don't end up marking up the floor that way. I run a Volvo 940B and sometimes a Deere 770G. My boss normally runs the Deere, but when one machine is down for whatever reason then he pulls out the 140.

I have find pdf with different types of operating technique, it is from Champion:http://www.varvayanis.com/sp/Equipm...perators_Manual/10-1_Operating_Techniques.pdf

Beware of the slope meter for finishing !An outfit I worked for in West Oz insisted that I use this instrument rather than stringline ready for pavement. The crossfall was the same on both sides of the street. when I turned the machine around to grade in the opposite direction it did not "feel' right and when I checked with the string line I was going to be wrong by spades.I checked several times with the stringline and the crossfall was still wrong.I finished a short section to the right grade stopped the machine and marked with spraypaint where my wheels were then turned the machine facing the other direction and parked exactly over the paint marks. In theory the bubble on the slope meter should have been exactly in the same set on the opposite side of the dial as it was running on the opposite side. It was not!Now, I would like to point out several reasons for the source of this problem. The first of course would be that it was not set up exact in the first place when the slopemeter was installed. Think about it and different tyre pressures could be another as would location of blade side shift, circle shift, artic positions and wheel lean all adding to a disproportionate transfer of weight to the set of the machine over your work making the instrument bubble set accordingly when the machine is turned around to run in the opposite direction.For finishing this thing was a night mare and only suitable as a guide to help with crossfall or level for that matter. I hope this helps clarify problems for those who use this instrument. Cheers, Pa Bear.

Awesome on the blade using it backwards. Got a 1982 14G ,cannot get the pin out to shift the circle, you seem talented, can you help me? Cariboo Joe

Hi Joe, I am not too sure what could be stopping the circle side shift lock pin from coming out, low air pressure caused by leak in the line or a seal in the lockpin unit itself.You could check this and then maybe locate blade and circle for its best balance over center, ensure the blade is lowered and on the ground and undo the front cover on the lockpin unit.Beware of airpressure here and the spring inside that actually locates and holds the lockpin in. Then get a hammer and drift and knock the pin forward and out and you will be able to see what the go is with the entire thing. Just beware of any possible blade movement when knocking the pin out. Make sure the blade is on the ground.The spring is not that ferocious that you cannot push it back into place with the cover and bolts by hand. There is a aluminium piston here too that has seals on it, can be corroded and rusty and junk with it. It should very easy to see what is the problem now and fix it pretty easy.All the best for the new Year Joe, Cheers, Pa Bear.

Hi there, top comments and feedback, I don't do much grading but enjoy when I do. Can relate to the comment by Ledsel about grading with your ass! I have tried to learn from "older masters" and like to learn on older gear first. You learn how to use your eyes to get fairly good level grades, but you need a reference to go off. I will add a pic to show what happens when your in a hurry. Was grading slope prior to graveling and hit a soft edge, my ass told me I was "off grade". Able to get unstuck by backing over the edge onto a small flat area, and carried on. You will see from the picture the grade of the road going up to the skid. Not flat, and a lot of lever pulling! Using a 12H

pabear52 said:Hi Joe, I am not too sure what could be stopping the circle side shift lock pin from coming out, low air pressure caused by leak in the line or a seal in the lockpin unit itself.You could check this and then maybe locate blade and circle for its best balance over center, ensure the blade is lowered and on the ground and undo the front cover on the lockpin unit.Beware of airpressure here and the spring inside that actually locates and holds the lockpin in. Then get a hammer and drift and knock the pin forward and out and you will be able to see what the go is with the entire thing. Just beware of any possible blade movement when knocking the pin out. Make sure the blade is on the ground.The spring is not that ferocious that you cannot push it back into place with the cover and bolts by hand. There is a aluminium piston here too that has seals on it, can be corroded and rusty and junk with it. It should very easy to see what is the problem now and fix it pretty easy.All the best for the new Year Joe, Cheers, Pa Bear.Click to expand...PS I'm assuming you have already lowered both lift rams to the ground and alternately lifted them up and down in little jerks to try and get the pin to retract. Sometimes this can take quite a few minutes to shake it about enough for retraction before you start looking for the problem with the unit itself.

I wonder if anyone here can help me. Brushing up on my minimal grading skills. A few months ago I found some great stuff ie pictures and a tutorial on grading a country road,7 or 8 passes I think. It might have been this:http://articles.directorym.net/Using...s-a941620.htmlbut it wont open anymore. Anyone have a link to the stuff Im referring to?Thx so much for any and all help.

Hi all, i just wanted to say that i have really enjoyed reading this thread over the last few days. the knowledge on this site continues to amaze and astound me..i am a Diesel plant fitter so i dont get much chance to "grade" but i know how they work and what does what. it is and will continue to be my firm belief that good maintenance starts with proper operation of the machine. i come from a place where i know more about how a machine works than the operator does.. a sad fact, but also it is part of making myself a better mechanic - knowing how it's supposed to be done that is.so i decided to play a trick on the operators, who know how to get the blade up by the side which makes changing blades easier(140H). so i turned it to face backwards like randy's picture. after 15 minutes i had to put it back for him lest he rip something off.. he just stood there and shook his head.thank you all again for the wealth of input. please keep

hi coastlogger, there is a pdf on operating techniques a page or two back, if that helps

Hey guys.. this thread was just what i was looking for last night.. Got to teach myself over Christmas vacation to operate a Grader. few hours till the rains started at least. it was an old Deere. dont know what model. but i was given a brief instruction, an a dont break it, chuckle and go on my way.soo now a few months later now its drying out im going to help my buddy finish his horse arena and stables.Thanks for all the ideas techniques etc. this thread will be repeatedly reread in the future.

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