I suggest you start with a fairly small piece of equipment, a bobcat or a mini excavator, as you get better on them and learn the scope of the project, if you have money graduate to something bigger. If you buy an older medium sized used dozer or excavator as a starter, depending on the condition of them, you might not learn as easily the feel for power and controls.
Another newbie.Hi, Fishin'Rod.Wellkum too ther 4um.Int'restin' kwestyun(s).Firstly, unless you plan on resurrecting Big Muskie, any sort of excavator/face shovel/dragline is out of the question for the area that you plan to work, UNLESS you also want a small fleet of trucks to work with it. Excavators do a good job quite efficiently WITHIN THEIR OWN WORKING RADIUS. To move material greater distances, they must either handle it twice - or more - or have haulage units or a conveyor system working with them.That still leaves a few options to choose from, dozers, track and wheel loaders and scrapers being the main ones. Of these, the loaders would be far and away the most versatile and either wheels or tracks would handle the job in loam soils. A 4-in-1 bucket fitted with teeth and a rear-mounted ripper make them pretty much able to look after themselves in most situations. As well, you have a pretty handy crane, a very useful over-grown wheelbarrow or small pick-up that will go places where your average BIG American pick-up doesn't even know exist, a road grader and fetch-n-carry machine for most occasions. A loader will be out earning its keep while a dozer will still be sitting in the shed eating into your bank account.Yes, a total greenhorn CAN do a job such as you describe, IF your university/college 'edjewmackayshun' hasn't knocked every last vestige of common sense out of you, which I find to be the case with a lot of supposedly learned people. There is a lot of REAL knowledge and experience available for the asking on this forum, as well as my 'play' knowledge. LOL. (I've been a 'kid in a sand pit' for over 40 years.)A loader, either wheeled or tracked, will not move dirt as efficiently as a dozer. How-wevver, it will move it quite adequately when worked in a similar fashion to a dozer. They are also relatively stable on side slopes, given a reasonable measure of care and caution. Filling the tires 3/4 full water makes a wheeled loader a much more stable machine and far bgetter able to put its 'grunt' on the ground, but you may need to consider some sort of anti-freeze for your winters. (I live in Australia where those problems seldom arise.)An elevating scraper would probably be the most efficient for the distances involved in the task that you describe. How-wevver, there may not be a lot of work for it once you have the pond finished so, if you chose to go that way, a rental machine or a buy-do-and sell might be the way to go.Hope this has given you some food for thought. Please feel free to ask any other questions that may occur to you as you digest this. I'm a LONG way from being the only one here who will stick their hand up and give you some answers or ideas.
With 160 acres do you have any farm tractors? If you have something 100hp or bigger, pull pans start to become an option. Even a 5 yd. pan and a farm tractor could put a large dent it in...
Probably I'd go with a big loader, 977 or 973.The Dozer might move dirt faster, but my oinion is that the loader is more forgiving of newbie mistakes because you can always pick up your mistake and start over.
In my opinion for constructing a pond with one piece of equipment on these distances a small self loading scraper seems to be the most fesable. A dozer would be my second option, it could be done with a dozer. I don't think an excavator would be very good for this project, as someone else said you have to have dump trucks matched with the excavator.
This sounds like quite a project for one man and one machine.
Guys, thanks for all of the advice.30 dirty years,Yes, I am worried it is too big for one guy. However, I don't have to work it with wet or frozen ground. I also don't need to finish on a deadline -- if I have a bad day I can quit early and have a beer (or 3) without getting fired. Does that make it more feasible for one guy, or just more likely that I will never finish?fensoncont.,Are scrapers the most efficient way to move dirt 100-1000' if the conditions are right? How is the trade-off of equipment cost for yards of dirt moved compared to a dozer? How is the trade-off in operator seat time and fuel consumption also?In calculating yards moved for overall $, isn't bigger usually better. Am I more likely to get stuck using a bigger scraper if I have some sub-soil moisture, or does the extra hp make better traction for the bigger machines?Do you scrape in slots and then scrape the windrows? How far do you try to drive to pick up your 11 yards (or whatever capacity)? Do your passes have to be straight, or can you pull a gentle curve?special tool,Yes, I am kind of leaning toward a loader. It seems like I could make a lot of rookie mistakes, but still eventually get all of the dirt where I want it. With the bigger loader I assume I could move more dirt per rental $, but would I also move more dirt per gallon of fuel? Don't the 977 or 973 require an over-size load permit to transport? Is the permit $100 or $1,000, or does it vary too much by state?stumpjumper,Unfortunately, I am a city boy. I actually have another piece of property out of town in the other direction. I have a good guy that bales the hay. I have a good tenant for the wheat. All of that looks like fun (in very small doses), but all of the equipment is so specialized and so darn expensive.I have four small children and they would play indoors or on the computer all weekend if I didn't drag them out to the country. The plan is to kind of nibble away at the edges of my productive land with a nice pond for fishing and swimming, some food plots for even better hunting, and some landscaping (to keep the boss-lady happy). If I did get one piece of heavy equipment, then I could probably get by with a small estate tractor (35 hp or less) for the rest of my needs. These are pretty cheap around here. Any recommendations on make and model from your end? How about gotta-have attachments?
Deas Plant,Thanks for the lengthy response. I don't think I've lost all of my common sense yet. However, everyone I know that doesn't have a lick of common sensethinksthey have tons of it.I don't really trust myself to outright buy any heavy iron, so I think I should probably go the rental route. With the huge amount of time this project will require, I think I could start with a scraper and later finish with a loader or dozer if the transportation costs to site are not too high. Any feedback on the "rent one-at-a-time then move to the next piece of heavy iron" plan would be appreciated.Do you work the loader like a dozer doing slots cutting from front to back? Or do you leave gentle ramps for good driving to your spoils area and cut a bucket full at the back, then lift and drive? I don't need the rippers to break any rocks, but it sure seems like less wear on your loader to rip the soil while driving a load, then load your bucket with disturbed soil on your next pass.Does a loader do less work than a dozer because of less break-out/cutting force on the blade, or is it because you can only fill your 3.5 cu. yard bucket on a loader whereas, the wider blade on a dozer becomes a 6 yard bucket when pushing in a slot?There are no slopes on my land steep enough to tip a wheel loader. I don't have any rocks to cut the tires. Any brush clearing I do will be very minor compared to what you guys consider clearing. Would a wheel loader be a better option for a newbie if I buy my last piece of rental equipment?I have seen on other threads that you really like the 4-in-1 buckets on loaders for us poor suckers that try to get by on only one piece of heavy iron. Is the GP bucket better suited for a loader in my first application trying to use it like a dozer, and the 4-in-1 better suited for multi-purpose tasks? Or is the 4-in-1 just as good for "dozing dirt"?milling drum,I agree, baby steps would probably be better, but this project is just too big in size for that equipment. However, except for coring my low dam to prevent leaks, I believe all of my project is technically simple. I don't need any perfect grades, if the dam washes out during a big storm there won't be anyone harmed downstream, etc.From reading this forum it is clear to me that there is clearly an art to using each piece of heavy equipment properly and efficiently. I have seen plenty of guys mention that they were an experienced dozer operator, yet still sucked on the grader. They knew they were doing it wrong, but still had a tough time doing it the right way. I usually only have to make a mistake one time to learn my lesson from it. However, I think I could make plenty of mistakes, but not learn from them because I don't realize that it is a mistake.My question for the forum is: Rookies usually learn by watching an experienced operator do it the right way, then have the boss yell at them when they do it the wrong way. Do you guys think a newbie with (some?) common sense can learn power and controls through experience only, without an "old hand" showing him the proper way? You guys can tell me the right way over the internet, but that is a long way from me seeing it in person. It is also a long way from someone experienced seeing in person what I am doing wrong.I haven't seen any mention on the forum of guys going to visit more experienced forum "friends" to learn things first hand. Is this a liability issue? Is it an internet anonymity issue, or have I just missed such a discussion?Finally, a forum "good manners" question. I can keep pestering all you experts for answers for as long as you are willing to reply. Is it more polite to make lots of posts with only one or two questions, than my long rambling posts? Can you ask too many questions, am I "yelling" in your forum?Thanks for all of your help.
Fishin'Rod said:special tool,Yes, I am kind of leaning toward a loader. It seems like I could make a lot of rookie mistakes, but still eventually get all of the dirt where I want it. With the bigger loader I assume I could move more dirt per rental $, but would I also move more dirt per gallon of fuel? Don't the 977 or 973 require an over-size load permit to transport? Is the permit $100 or $1,000, or does it vary too much by state?Click to expand...This will NOT be a considerable expense for a one-time move on a job of the scale of which you have outlined.Try to minimize the amount of state permits required - the closer the better.When you specify size class, the newer machine will always be more efficient - a 973 will ALWAYS be more efficient than a 977. Caterpillar is not a market leader because they go backwards....HOWEVER..I like 977's, they might be a little cheaper upon initial purchase, and the engine lies where God intended.A dozer or a scraper might be faster (probable), but they are both more difficult to run efficiently - you ought to honestly have more experience.
fensoncont.,Are scrapers the most efficient way to move dirt 100-1000' if the conditions are right?Scrapers are very efficient up to 3000' one way haul, generally pull pans aren't used for more then 1000' one way. If you were down around 100' one way I see no problem using a dozer, you could even use a dozer above that distance as well.How is the trade-off of equipment cost for yards of dirt moved compared to a dozer?This depends on what the exact haul length is and what size of each machine. If you have an idea on each size of machine and a distance I could give you better assistance on that.How is the trade-off in operator seat time and fuel consumption also?What exactly are you asking when you say operator seat time when comparing them? Fuel consumption depends on size of each machine, give me an example and I can give you a good idea on consumption per machine per hour.In calculating yards moved for overall $, isn't bigger usually better.You want to move the most yards per hour you can if that's what you're asking? Although depending on the size of the job you don't want a bunch of equipment or large equipment just to get it done if there is no strict time restraint. Another thing: This won't affect you on this job much, but there are always fixed costs like mobilization that will cause a lower quantity of an item to cost more.Am I more likely to get stuck using a bigger scraper if I have some sub-soil moisture, or does the extra hp make better traction for the bigger machines?Not sure I am understanding that question thoroughly?Do you scrape in slots and then scrape the windrows?When I have operated a self loading scraper I was working on a street, I could cut in 2 different widths (slots like you are talking about) and then I would scrape the windrow in the center up.How far do you try to drive to pick up your 11 yards (or whatever capacity)?This will depend on the depth of the cut you are making at the given time. Say you are making a 6" cut with a 613 Cat Scraper (11 yards) it will take you roughly 50-60' length to fill your bowl. That is assuming natural clay with a load factor of .75 figuring the capacity by weight/struck capacity.Do your passes have to be straight, or can you pull a gentle curve?I normally tried to cut straight when I was operating, but at the end of ths street it made 90* right turn and I had to cut while turning. I had to adjust my bowl and try to keep subgrade for the street pavement beacuse when you turn while cutting like that it can be confusing. Take your time.I hope some of this information helps, if I can help with anything else let me know. I'm sure the experts can help you a lot more who have a lot of operating experience. I'm just a kid.
Of time isn't an issue ,I always wanted to dig a pond with one of these
Fishin'Rod said:I love the forum and have been lurking for quite a while.I would like to build a 5 acre pond to an average depth of eight feet. Location is in loam soil in central Kansas with no rocks.I can construct an embankment dam for only about two feet of pond depth before I impound water onto the neighbor's property. I would then have to dig about six feet (net) over 5 acres. By my math, this is moving 48,400 yards of material. The property is 160 acres, so I could grade the spoils immediately adjacent to the pond and level out the gentle valley.This project leads me to many questions for you experts.First, if I can only afford one piece of equipment, what would be the best piece for the job? I have been reading the track loader forum, and this would probably be the most versatile piece of equipment for me to have around the farm. However, can it do this much true digging, or do I need to decide between a dozer or an excavator?Secondly, and more importantly, can a newbie be trusted to run heavy equipment? This is nearly flat ground and I would not have to clear any trees. I am a geologist and about 1/2 of a petroleum engineer. I have pretty good book smarts and decent street smarts, but I have never been around anyone operating heavy equipment. I am a diligent person, if the manual says to change the oil filter at 100 hours, I guarantee that it will be changed on schedule. It is all of the stuff that isn't in the manual that concerns me. Phrase your answers for a guy that right now doesn't know which foot pedal does what.In my experience, the best way to learn is by doing. However, if the job took me five times as long as a contractor, then I would probably be better off paying to have the job done. I have several larger projects that I could tackle if the first project goes well, so I would like to be able to do it by myself.There are several dealers in the area that rent dozers, loaders (track or wheel), and excavators by the week or month. I would not trust myself to buy a piece of heavy equipment, because I just could not evaluate its condition. However, if I rented something that ran well for four weeks, would I then be able to make a smart purchase decision? Can a decent mechanic evaluate equipment to some certainty, or is too much of the wear and tear hidden in the engine, tracks, etc?Is this project feasible for a total newbie?There is no time constraint on completing the project, and I would be able to ask questions on this forum to get my learning curve going a little steeper.Any advice about equipment, operating, and best earthmoving practices would be greatly appreciated.P.S. I don't have thin skin, please be completely blunt in your responses rather than beat around the bush.Click to expand...On a real serious note here do you really realize what you want????First off using your figure of 48,400 yards of dirt !!!!! Do you even have any idea how much dirt that is? Plus another thing is get the local NRCS people to come out and see how big 5 acres is. Measure off a 5 acre pond and set the water line stakes then you will get a little more idea what your getting into.There is coreout for the center of the dam and has to be refilled back in with good clay.Dirt moved out and dirt moved back in (more yardage).I would talk to the neighbor if you get along and try to get them to sign an easement to back water up on them and raise the dam to get your depth to what you want.Faster and less dirt to excavate.If you only have 2 ft. high in the dam to work with where is the water going to drain too while your taking your time diggin out the other 6 ft. of dirt.If it rains before your done then the hole your diggin is filling up with water before you get it don't.So you would have to have a ditch(8 ft. deep) that will drain out while your taking your merry time digging out 5 acre 6 ft. deep (48,400 yards of dirt).Main point is that this isn't a one machine and take all the time you want to build thing if it won't drain while your digging the 6 ft.deep part.My neighbor here did what you want to do.Bought a dozer ,then got into trouble,got stuck first off.Then tipped the dozer over on it's side,then.Part of it filled up with water before he got done.In the mean he finally got someone to come up with a TS14 scraper and 225 excavator.Which took close to two years and 2 months to complete and still has problems because of building the slopes to steep and not enough dirt to flatten out the back slope and running out of dirt and now with the pond over 3/4 full,still needing dirt for the back slope.I would lower my site to smaller pond with a better location suited for building.Like deep ditch so you can leave the middle open and get the ends built up to the high you need or want that way any water coming into the pond will drain out the center until you get ready to fill the center and complete your job.Not one machine ,but close.Would be dozer and scraper(hydraulic scraper preferably) since you have very little experience with a cable operatered scraper.Plus you could rent tractor to pull the scraper when you need to run the dozer serpate from scraper.Like when you went to fill the middle .You could be dozing while some one else was running the tractor and scraper.When fill the center is not time to dally around if rain is forcast.Even when they aren't forcasting ,sometimes those duck drowners happing when you least expect them!Ever played in mud? not fun aleast at our age!First thing i would check with your local NRCS(natural resource conservation service) in your county.They can survey the site and tell you what you need to do and maybe find a better place on the 160 acres.Surly more places then just the one your looking at to me.Which doesn't sound very good too me.You might even be able to get goverment cost share if it in an erosion area.For 5 acre pond you will need also a drainage pipe,just a plain spillway won't work.You will have a gully around the end where the spillway is in a few years.This is coming from someone that has built ponds and done conservation work for 34 years.You just need to really know what your getting yourself into.5K to 6k pond not a bad project for a newbie,but not 48,400 yard of dirt one.Good luck what every you decide:usa
48,400 cu. yards equals the following4,609 full loads with a 14 yard Terex ts-1415,414 full buckets with with a 4 yard bucket on a cat 973 trackloader or a 950 wheel loader10,590 pushes with a 6 yd blade on a cat D8tThat is alot of dirt to move.*all calculations figgured a swell of .75As far as estate tractors go, there are some real deals out there right now. I've seen some nearly new ( < 100 hrs. ) kubotas for half to 2/3's of new price.
get some help in pond building!!Having built a few and fixed even more ponds over the years I would suggest getting some estimates and some help in laying out and planning your pond. I have seen many ponds that were never built right from the bottom up to those that that became just too muddy to complete. not a good job for a new operator unless you are willing to live with what you build. with times as slow as they are right now you should have little trouble getting multiple bids. also give some thought to an island as these are great for swimming and fishing. If the soil is moist enough you will likely have to dig,pile to dry and shape as much as 6 months later. A 5 acre pond is most likely going to need several overflow and flood controls. where the water goes on exiting the pond is just as important as where it comes in. most washouts are the result of dumping water too close to the breast and over time it undermines it. just some things to ponder. Billhttps://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
Dirt Moving Cost' s ?Say you have 50,000 yards to move at $X per yd,$1 per yd = $50,000$2 per yd = $100,000$3 per yd = $150,000Kinda gives you some clue as to how much your going to spend to build the project.Your personal $ will tell you what to do .Might ask a contractor for an estimate 1st. To clue you in as to, the project costs.
Do it the farmer wayContact your Fsa (Farm service agency), Soil & Water conservation District, Or Natural Resource Conservation Service and ask about any pond type project programs. They may have them, and sometimes certain districts they will even cost share a percentage of costs. Then once you get that all lined up, go buy yourself a good front wheel asist tractor(try a John Deere 8000 series if you can) and a 10 to 12yd scraper like a Holcomb (made in kansas so should be easy to get a hold of) and get to it. I used the same set up and it works great in midwest soils.
Well, 320dirty years, I don't have much experience when it comes to huge earthmoving projects, like ponds and what have you, but from my DIY experience, my point of view is that you should definately o it yourself, and even though it looks hard, and long and at times unforgiving, but the valuable knowledge you pick up is priceless. And even if it does take forever and a day, it is all up to you, and you know that you are getting exactly what you want, both asthetically and functionality.
Is the land clear of trees and ready for digging?What is your budget for buying equipment?What is your sill level or ability to fix and maintain the equipment that you buy?How much time do you have available for operating the equipment?When I dug my 4 acre pond, I thought it would take me 4 to six months. It took me two years and I got lucky that we had a real bad drought for those two years. I had to rebuild the engine in my dozer and my dump truck. I had hydraulic cylinders to out, overheating problems and burned 400 to 600 gallons of diesel a month when I was working hard at it. Other months, nothing got done at all.You really need three pieces of equipment to do this. One to dig the dirt, one to move the dirt and one to spread the dirt. Digging is best with an excavator, but I don't have one, so I used a backhoe. I like the backhoe because it's so versatile at doing so many things. I can take out trees, removes stumps, move dirt or load my dump truck with it. It's good on fuel and fairly easy to maintain and operate. Tires don't tear up my roads like tracks do. I've recently added a grapple to it and now I can carry branches and trees with it to the burn pile very quickly and efficiently.The dump truck moves allot of dirt fairly quickly. Having one truck, I usually load it, then drive the truck and dump the dirt where I want it, then go back and do it again. How far I drive the truck dictates how many loads that I can move in a hour, but if I can get 7 or 8 an hour, I"m moving pretty good. It's a 6 yard, single axle dump truck. A bigger bed would haul more material, but on my place, get stuck more often. I get stuck allot with the dump truck as it rains fairly often hear end the rear axle is very heavy when loaded. One soft spot and I'm stuck.The dozer is needed for spreading out the dirt from the dump truck, but also good at digging the dirt in the pond. First I pushed as much as possible onto the dam. I made it much wider then it needed to be, but it looks real nice with that extra dirt. My outside slopes are very gentle and easy to mow. People walk on it and don't even realize they are on the dam. But after awhile, there is no where else to put the dirt on the dam an dirt on the dam and it needed to be hauled off. Then I just pushed up piles with the dozer and loaded them with the front loader of the backhoe into my dump truck.Now that my pond is done, I'm doing the same thing with my pasture. There was a ridge down the middle of it that I'm taking out to level it out. I'm moving the dirt to a ravine that I want a road across and I'm also building up a nice crown onto my roads.Having those three pieces of equipment lets me do just about everything I need to do with moving dirt and clearing my land. I'm not in a hurry to get anything done, and work at my own pace. In the summer, my parents visit here and my Dad and I work together, but the rest of the year, I just do it on my own.Good luck,Eddie
Fishn RodSounds like you have a good sized project on your hands. I think with the right planning and your idea of renting equipment may work.A few things on that. Are you going to work at it full time? Rental equipment is paid for by the day, week, or month. If you have it for a month, but only use it a few days, it gets expensive fast.Don't be scared by the volume. You could rent a 613, or even a 623 scraper, get most of the dirt where it is needed, then go with a dozer to shape it up.Also, the idea of a tractor and pull pan would work in yuour soils, by the description.I think with the volume you are talking, and spread over 5 acres, a dozer or track loader will take waaaay too long.Good thing about your idea of renting is that typically you get a pretty new piece of equipment, and then you do not have to work on it, just service it, and add fuel.As far as how to build YOUR pond, I do not know the rules in your area, but I am sure you should find out.For how to best operate the type of machinery you pick to do the work, advice from us is great, but I would also reccomend the book "Moving the Earth" by Harold Nichols. It was written first about 50 years ago, but although equipment has improved vastly since then, dirt is still the same, and the pricipals of moving it are as well. There are a lot of illustrations of how to make a machine do the task at hand. If you have never done this before, it is a great starting point, and if you have been doing it for a while, you can pick up "tricks" that help you get the most out of a machine.Best of luck to your pond building venture.
As you can see, there is more than one way to skin a cat (no pun intended).If your site will dry out well after rain or snow, you might get by with one machine - a loader, dozer, or scraper. Loaders are very versatile, in dry conditions. A larger wheel loader (4 to 6 yard bucket) will dig well and carry the load a considerable distance quite rapidly. A crawler loader is much slower if it has to carry or push the material a long distance.If you hit water or if the partially dug pond won't dry out well after rain or snow, you may end up with a permanently wet site that you can't finish with a loader, dozer, or scraper.A safe way of doing this might be to use two pieces of equipment. Dig it to depth as you go using a track excavator, piling the dirt behind the excavator. Then move the material using a dozer or loader. That way, muddy conditions in the pond won't create problems.
You have one good thing going for you. Right now because of the economy you can get some great deals on new, to nearly new equipment. I would be leery of buying a used piece of equipment with several thousand hours on it, unless I really knew what to look for.I just purchased a used 2008 JD excavator with 80 hours on it for 60% off new prices, and it still has factory warantee on it.I honestly dont think you can get by with just one piece of equipment, but I do think you can do it yourself.Good luck.
You could probably get it done on a Saturday with a 25 ton excavator.Oh, you´ll also need a trailer load of fertilizer, a fuel truck, a couple sticks of dynamite, some ear protection and an alibi.
Alibi = the most important partOn a serious note. Equipment prices at auction are really down, now is a good time to buy a low hour rig.
8934- What type of excavator did you buy and what did you pay if you dont mind me asking
joispoi,Can I get a good rental price on the dynamite if I return it in only "slightly used" condition.
Fishin'Rod said:joispoi,Can I get a good rental price on the dynamite if I return it in only "slightly used" condition.Click to expand...That´s what rental insurance is for.
Northart said:Say you have 50,000 yards to move at $X per yd,$1 per yd = $50,000$2 per yd = $100,000$3 per yd = $150,000Kinda gives you some clue as to how much your going to spend to build the project.Your personal $ will tell you what to do .Might ask a contractor for an estimate 1st. To clue you in as to, the project costs.Click to expand...I agree with Northart on this one. You say you're a total newbie to dirt work with machines probably getting a contractor to do it for you would be the best bet. They will be familiar with the local ground and water table conditions. Getting the slopes right is going to be hard for you no matter what equipment and methods you choose.I would look up some excavating contractors in your town and get some estimates, this way whether you do the job in-house or shop it out, you know approximately how much money you need. I think you're better off having it done on contract rather than them renting you equipment and people by the hour. I've never been on your property I just wouldn't feel right recommending equipment not knowing what kind of dirt you'll encounter.
Let's everyone not forget that he is the owner, and HE sets the deadlines.Mistakes and time are secondary to budget in this instance.
Thanks for all of the helpful comments!I now have a much better idea of what problems I will be facing. Time to finish up my preliminary surveying and meet up with the NRCS agent.The advice from everyone clearly shows there are many ways to "skin this cat". I don't think I can do it efficiently with one piece of heavy equipment. Therefore, I think I will get a small tractor with FEL for all of the little jobs. (The low hour tractors are very cheap right now.) I can then do some short-term rentals on heavy equipment and see what works best in my conditions. Once I pick a winner, then I can do a longer term rental when I have time to do some serious work.P.S. I did get the "Moving the Earth" book at my local library. It is a great book for other newbies, or even a good reference for guys moving to a new piece of equipment or a new type of work. It tells you the right way to do things,andthe common wrong things to do. (For example, four different ways to bring a tree down on your head while clearing land.)Best wishes to everyone in 2009.Rod
Q for RodFishin Rod, do you happen to know Steve Lippoldt, who goes by the handle of Kansas Cat? He has an excavating company just outside of Wichita. Lippoltd Excavating.620-488-1135 or 316-461-7565 If you are looking to get the work done for you, I'd recommend you give him a call.He's a Cat nut as well as an owner/operator.He can be found online over on the ACME Caterpillar board.He's usually a helpful person! Never hurts to make another friend in the business, as close as you both are.Feel free to come on over to the Cat forum and ask your question there too.http://www.antiquecaterpillar.net/ACF_v2/Alan627bOmaha
Alan,Thanks for the info. I have heard Steve's name mentioned several times, but I have not met him yet. Seems like a good time to meet him when I get a little farther on my project.Rod
You might give him a call on a weekend, I know he's working as the weather allows, but contractors usually aren't too busy this time of year. he might be able to come out and talk with you about what you want done...I think he's looking for a project for the Spring Fling, so all the antique cat nuts can gather and have a place to play. A pond job would be ideal!Just a thought...tell him Alan Hynes sent you.
imho i would pay someone to do it and make a deal with them to let u helpi have some experience in operating heavy equipment and a lot in building aspect and i would proceed on the side of caution in doing it yourself.
Hey fishin rod...Did you ever get your pond built? I see where Alan mentioned my name to you, but i never got a call. Just stumbled onto this post while searching for something else. Just curious if i could be of service to ya.Steve Lippoldt
Just dont bite off more than you can chew. About 8 years ago a fellow called me to put a road way into his property. He had a big insurance settlement and bought about 5 acres out in the country. He had dreams of building a house, barn and a 2 acre pond. He hired me to put the road way in. After getting to know him and he started talking to me about his procdure and the way he was going to tackle it. He wanted to put up his barn first ( which he did) then build his pondl, which I advised him against. I said you ought to build your house first. Because you can move in and live in it and not have to drive 60 miles every day or on week ends to get to the property. Plus you can borrow on the house (he had enough money in cash to build it) to build the pond if need be, and if it dont work out you will at least have a nice house and a place in the country to retire in. Or at least could sell it if things went south. He wouldnt listen to me. He said he was determined to buy a dozer, skid steer and a excavator and start the pond first. He wanted the experience and joy of playing in the dirt. He had a teen age son that was out of school and the only experience in life he had was sitting in front of a computer and playing games. He said he wanted to teach him how to run the equpt. He even sent him to a consctrution trade school for about 6 months to teach him how to run the equpt. I told him he was making a big mistake because all this work would make both of them loose interest soon. I found a fellow who uses alot of dirt to cover up a working land fill and he gave him a very fair price (I thought) to dig the pond and haul away the dirt to use as he needed. He wouldnt listen. He went out and bought a 450 JD dozer, a Case skid steer and a track hoe. I lost contact with him but hapened to be up that way about a year ago and saw about a 1 acre where the top soil had been taken off and maybe dug down 2 or 3 feet. All three pieces of equipt was sitting with saplings grown up around it. I asked a neighbor what happened. He said he worked it for about 2 months, then things started breaking down, son lost interest of real work, dad got sick because of the preassure. Walked away and just abanoned it. Now no one wants it with that mess in the ground.
Rod- On the book at library. Do you see it being handy enough to keep at home or reading it once from the library be sufficient? I found it on Amazon, not a cheap book.... But if you look, there were three in a bundle they suggested one of which was estimating. May be helpful to your task.
Steve,Thanks for the follow-up.The pond did not get started. I was losing money at the time and managed to go from cash in the bank to owing the bank big by summer 2009. I have been working 80 hour weeks lately, and should get out of debt in 2010 or 2011.I will call you when I can get going on my projects.
John,Thanks for the advice. I had a lot on my plate at the time, so I was trying to work up a practical plan to avoid biting off more than I could chew. (I hate gagging on my own stupidity.)I think I can work out a slightly bigger project in the future that will work better and be done mostly by contractors.
RTS,The book is very dense reading. It would be a good book to use as a reference.If you are a newbie, read a few chapters relevant to your project. This would help whether you were doing it yourself or just wanted to give more explicit instructions to your contractor.If you are an experienced earth-mover, I still think it would be a good book to peruse if you are switching to a new task different than your usual work.Either way, I doubt you would look at it much more than once/year. However, you might read it a little over the next 10-20 years. I go to the library all of the time with my kids, but it may be worth it to buy for others.