Oil Substitute

Best Practices for Oil Substitute

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The API oil classifications are your best guide. Use an oil that is compatible with the API classifications that were in use at the time the tractor is new. Oils designed for use in modern emission-control engines have much higher detergency and lower levels of additives such as Zinc Di-thio-phosphate, which is needed for the cams and valve lifters in the older engines.Cat went through a period in the 1960's where they tried to utilise the same oil for as many tractor compartments as possible. This was touted as a method of reducing "oil type" fill mistakes, and also a way of simplifying oil stocks held.However, they later recanted on the idea, and returned to recommending gear oils for gear cases and engine oils for engine, clutch, and hyd steering controls.At the time the D6B was released, API diesel oil classifications CC and CD were the API classifications in current use. Over time, the earlier API classifications have been classed as "obsolete". Both CC and CD are now obsolete classifications. Nearly all oil manufacturers try to engineer their latest classification oil to meet all the previous classifications. However, some of the latest classifications are not suitable for older engines - particularly where carbon buildup has produced a good seal.Some newer oils will strip out every piece of useful carbon deposit in an old engine and cause leaks and increase oil burning.Use an engine oil that has a sticker stating it's compatible with earlier API classifications such as CF. CF replaced CC & CD in the API classifications, and CF is still a current classification.The sulfur content of your diesel is also a factor in engine oil choice. High sulfur diesels requires higher-detergency oils with increased additive levels to handle the higher levels of nasty sulfur compounds produced by combustion.API oil classifications -http://www.finalube.com/reference_material/API_Engine_Oil_Classifications.htmAPI diesel oil classifications -http://www.finalube.com/reference_m...cations_For_Diesel_Engines_C_Service_Oils.htmFor the transmission and final drives, you're better advised to use a gear oil of around 80-90wt viscosity, that meets GL-5 gear oil classification.This oil is a stickier, heavier oil than engine oil, with additives designed to counter the severe conditions encountered in high-pressure, high shear, hypoid and straight-cut, gear tooth contact.

Thank you Oz, I applied some additional Google-Foo and found a reference from Pinnacle Oil that stated it met all requirements of Caterpillar SAE 30 Superior Lubricants Series 3 and met API CE, CF-2/SH. Which classifies it as HD Diesel Engine Oil....must be the right stuff. Shell Rotella 30W meets the same API specs.As far as the Tranny and Final drives you think I should go with 80-90 weight? I don't want to feed this ol' lady something she has never seen before......might break her

mtang45- The 80-90wt, GL-5 gear oil is the right lube for today - and you may find, she's just a tiny bit slower in the real cold weather, if you've been using 50 wt previously. However, most people barely notice the difference.The GL-5 gear oil improves gear tooth life as compared to the engine oil, particularly if you're doing heavy work. You'd have to be doing something real stupid to break an old Cat.Also, a good idea when you change the oil in the finals, is to drain the old oil, replace the drain plug, fill the finals with 3 or 4 galls of diesel - then drive back and forth on level ground for 50 yds each way, for 5-10 mins.Then drain the diesel thoroughly, replace the drain plug and fill with new oil to the bottom threads of the filler neck. This diesel flush, flushes out lots of metal particles, that do nothing for the life of finals, if left in there.You may get a shock at the metal particles that come out in the diesel flush, but small flakes of metal off gear teeth are normal. If there's identifiable bearing pieces, such as round chunks off rollers in bearings, then you've got some serious problems.Another good idea is to check the sprocket bearing for tightness when you do a final drive oil change. Insert a bar between track frame and sprocket, and wriggle the sprocket to see if it "clunks".No clunk is good, "clunking" means the taper roller sprocket bearing needs adjusting up. A loose sprocket bearing starts to hammer and destroys itself rapidly.

OzDozer said:mtang45- The 80-90wt, GL-5 gear oil is the right lube for today - and you may find, she's just a tiny bit slower in the real cold weather, if you've been using 50 wt previously. However, most people barely notice the difference.The GL-5 gear oil improves gear tooth life as compared to the engine oil, particularly if you're doing heavy work. You'd have to be doing something real stupid to break an old Cat.Also, a good idea when you change the oil in the finals, is to drain the old oil, replace the drain plug, fill the finals with 3 or 4 galls of diesel - then drive back and forth on level ground for 50 yds each way, for 5-10 mins.Then drain the diesel thoroughly, replace the drain plug and fill with new oil to the bottom threads of the filler neck. This diesel flush, flushes out lots of metal particles, that do nothing for the life of finals, if left in there.You may get a shock at the metal particles that come out in the diesel flush, but small flakes of metal off gear teeth are normal. If there's identifiable bearing pieces, such as round chunks off rollers in bearings, then you've got some serious problems.Another good idea is to check the sprocket bearing for tightness when you do a final drive oil change. Insert a bar between track frame and sprocket, and wriggle the sprocket to see if it "clunks".No clunk is good, "clunking" means the taper roller sprocket bearing needs adjusting up. A loose sprocket bearing starts to hammer and destroys itself rapidly.Click to expand...Oz, thanks again for the advice and tips. I plan to do exactly as you suggest.

mtang45 said:The Owners Manual of my newly acquired Cat D6B says to use Superior Lubricants SAE 30 (Series 3) in the engine crankcase, flywheel clutch, Hydraulic Steering clutch control and Transmission; and to use SAE 50 (series 3) in the Final Drives.I know oil formula's have changed a lot over the last 50 years. What would be the modern equivalent to these 1960's oils?Click to expand...Mtang45,You need to use a TO 4 30 wt. oil in you transmission,clutch and steering.TO 4 50 wt. in your finals.You have the right oil for your engine.DONOT use 80-90 wt oil.Good luckBob

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Well, it seems we have a strong difference of opinion on lube for the Transmission and final drives. Anyone else want to add to this?

mtang45 said:The Owners Manual of my newly acquired Cat D6B says to use Superior Lubricants SAE 30 (Series 3) in the engine crankcase, flywheel clutch, Hydraulic Steering clutch control and Transmission; and to use SAE 50 (series 3) in the Final Drives.I know oil formula's have changed a lot over the last 50 years. What would be the modern equivalent to these 1960's oils?Click to expand...Any SAE 15W/40 engine oil meeting API CH-4 or better for the engine crankcase. A transmission oil SAE30 meeting Caterpillar TO-4 specification for the transmission. Same TO-4 but SAE50 in Final DrivesDO NOT under any circumstances use an EP oil in the Final Drives or a powershift transmission, it will take the silicone-based seals out in quick style.MUSTbe TO-4.

Since when have Cat powershift transmissions had a flywheel clutch?? The D6B mtang45 is asking about, has a sliding gear, direct drive transmission, that takes gear oil to GL-5 specs.I used 80-90 wt oil in the finals of my D6C's and D7F's for over 20 yrs - and I can tell you, there's no silicone o-ring seals in contact with the final drive oil. The D6B is the same.The flywheel clutch, and the steering clutch control hydraulics in the D6B, take engine oil. The D6B has dry steering clutches.

My bad. Should have read the OP a bit more closely. For some reason I had D6D in my head.The direct-drive transmission can still use TO-4 SAE 50 in that case. I've had a fair amount of experience using TO-4 oils as replacements for GL-5 spec EP oils and am more than satisfied with their performance.

mtang45 said:Thank you Oz, I applied some additional Google-Foo and found a reference from Pinnacle Oil that stated it met all requirements of Caterpillar SAE 30 Superior Lubricants Series 3 and met API CE, CF-2/SH. Which classifies it as HD Diesel Engine Oil....must be the right stuff. Shell Rotella 30W meets the same API specs.As far as the Tranny and Final drives you think I should go with 80-90 weight? I don't want to feed this ol' lady something she has never seen before......might break herClick to expand...mtang,you answered yourself,your tractor has done fine for 45 years why change?Cat changed from 90 wt GO to engine oil in the 60s,in the 70s they changed to a TO-2 type oil which is now a TO-4 oil. Cat still calls for 30 wt. DEO in your PC motor and TO-4 oils in clutch,trasmission,steering and finals.Good luckBob

The reason for the change was that Cat found that gearset teeth under heavy pressure (read DD transmission teeth and double reduction final drive teeth - particularly bullgear teeth), all need an EP additive for maximum protection.If TO-4 and engine oil is so good for DD and final drive gearsets, why do oil companies specifically make GL-5 oils with EP additives??http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1406/extreme-pressure-additiveshttp://www.engineersedge.com/lubrication/extreme_pressure_additives.htm

OzDozer said:If TO-4 and engine oil is so good for DD and final drive gearsets, why do oil companies specifically make GL-5 oils with EP additives??Click to expand...Because some customer keep asking for it maybe..? It would be silly of them not to.I wouldn't use engine oil anywhere near a gearset to be honest. Not long ago I had an argument with a major manufacturer who recommended using SAE 15W/40 engine oil for the pump drive on a large HEX. I started off with TO-4 SAE 30 but after looking at the oil analysis I ended up putting TO-4 SAE 50 in it and the results are better than excellent.To me the best use of GL-5 EP oils is in the diffs of my pickup truck or the rear axle of something like a Mack truck. Other than that I wouldn't have the stuff on site TBH.

Can I Use Cat TO-4 Instead of 80w90 GL-4 gear oil?Nige said:Because some customer keep asking for it maybe..? It would be silly of them not to.I wouldn't use engine oil anywhere near a gearset to be honest. Not long ago I had an argument with a major manufacturer who recommended using SAE 15W/40 engine oil for the pump drive on a large HEX. I started off with TO-4 SAE 30 but after looking at the oil analysis I ended up putting TO-4 SAE 50 in it and the results are better than excellent.To me the best use of GL-5 EP oils is in the diffs of my pickup truck or the rear axle of something like a Mack truck. Other than that I wouldn't have the stuff on site TBH.Click to expand...I was advised by someone that I would get the same level of protection from CAT TO-4 oil that I would get from much more expensive 80w90 GL-4 gear oil. He said that the levels of EP protection in the two oils were comparable. Do you know if this is true? My application is actually in the transmission and transfer case of a 1967 Jeep CJ-5 (can't use GL-5 because that will destroy the soft metals in the synchronizers). I am interested in using the TO-4 oil solely as a measure to save on cost since my Jeep leaks that oil out onto the ground. The 80w90 GL-4 oil I am trying to avoid costs me about $32/gallon and is not cheap.Thanks for any opinions or suggestions on anything else you think I could use to save costs buy not sacrifice protection.

cat recommended cd 30 for powershifts and I think that was motor oil-- was cat wrong.

BUFORD said:cat recommended cd 30 for powershifts and I think that was motor oil-- was cat wrong.Click to expand...IMO the video will answer your' question! Additionally, increased horsepower of today's engines, e.g. increased torque-rise, that means lugging power. The mechanical injected engines have approx 35-38% torque rise versus electronic injected engines @ 45% or higher.

Nige said:Because some customer keep asking for it maybe..? It would be silly of them not to.I wouldn't use engine oil anywhere near a gearset to be honest. Not long ago I had an argument with a major manufacturer who recommended using SAE 15W/40 engine oil for the pump drive on a large HEX. I started off with TO-4 SAE 30 but after looking at the oil analysis I ended up putting TO-4 SAE 50 in it and the results are better than excellent.To me the best use of GL-5 EP oils is in the diffs of my pickup truck or the rear axle of something like a Mack truck. Other than that I wouldn't have the stuff on site TBH.Click to expand...Found this article on EP additives, this what your saying Nige?http://machinerylubrication.com/Read/29276/micropitting-surface-fatigue

Have to be careful with that, have had instances in the past when exotic oils were required and although something else would work awhile the bearing surfaces/clearances did not tolerate well. Old Jeep manual transmissions of the 80's used a special lube that turns out was whale oil. We tried going from 50w non detergent oil to gear oils in the old Spicer or Eaton 5x4 crash boxes, ate them alive and made harder to shift.

I've used 50wt oil in my NP435 transmission for 20+ years, no problems at all.Ed

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