tractor drawn log loader over heating hydraulic oil

Best Practices for tractor drawn log loader over heating hydraulic oil

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what year & model Kubota?

1985 L3750 45 hp,9gpm hyd.flow

we recently made a PTO power unit for a snowblower, went 25% over the GPM required for the blower. I would make the reservoir tank bigger is the only tip I have, if it's a 15gpm loader/ pump you want 2x the amount of oil or as close as you can be. I dont see a small loader being that high of a demand, hydraulic surplus center had everything you need.

Quote from: 47sawdust on April 06, 2018, 05:29:51 PMMy Kubota dealer told me not to power a log loader from my tractors hydraulic system.Contamination was not the issue overheating the oil was.I can't see lower than required flow as being a heat issue, performance sure. I'd run it off the tractor first and monitor the temp of the lines carefully before I went to that bother and expense. The pump and PTO shaft is one thing, but a 30 gallon hydraulic tank is not so easy to find room for WITH a 3pt hitch log loader in place.What do you have for a loader?

Does the tractor not have a cooler for the hydraulic oil?We install quite a few on tractor 3pt hitches and almost all use the tractor hydraulics except the select few that either don't have outlets or are going on an old model where they typically don't have the pressure required.In almost all cases where we don't use the tractor we suggest a cooler or at the very least baffles in the hydraulic tank.I wouldn't overaize the pump. Loaders generally run just fine with substantially less oil than suggested. There's just less oil for using multiple functions at once and a little less oil returning to the tank.Some customers have used larger pumps than we offer hoping to run their tractors at a lower RPM and thought the logic is there, they've never had good results.

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If that machine ever came with a backhoe option then i see absolutely no reason not to run a log loader off it.  A hoe will run for 6 hours straight without a rest.. Log trailer loads a few, travels, few more, nother break etc.  Lots of time to shed heat in between,  and being hydrostatic, im sure your bota has a hydraulic cooler.Only way id say dont do it is if your remote hydraulic pressure was from a charge pump.  Those baby bota loaders for around the garden use charge pump takeoff fluid from the drive pump to the loader valve, like a garden tractor does for deck lift and snowplow/3ph. Its sub 1000 psi and very weak.9gpm might not cut it if you want to be flinging logs like a knuckleboom, but if you arent in a hurry itll do fine. Using just one valve at a time will help offset the lack of flow.  I tested a full size backhoe attachment off a 10gpm home made tractor and it almost moved fast enough to dig decent with.  5" cylinders.You dont want too much flow on the log loader or itll be jerky.  Twice i have reduced hose sizes on an attachment, and one time i dropped a gear pump from 10gpm to 4 in order to gain better control.  I was much happier with the result.

Mike,The tractor does come with a backhoe option,but that unit has it's own reservoir and uses a pto pump. The tractor isn't hydrostatic,just hydraulic shuttle shift.I'll have to check more closely for a cooler.I can pull a feed/return from my loader but surplus center can fix me up with a 10 gallon pump/reservoir for not a lot of money.Thanks to all for your input

Alright, then that does suggest the base machine was built with the minimum needs for powering itself.Do you have a single or 2 speed pto?

pto is 540 and 750

Good info , for what its worth my understanding is Hytran will handle heat issues better than regular hydraulic oil.   Do you have an opportunity to try the loader before you mount it on your tractor.  May want to see if your tractor is equipted with flow control and what they are set at.  Had a bad experience one time where the lift cylinders cavitated . Log came back ,smashed the valve bank and destroyed the seat.  Lots of snow for the bailout but its good to have a chance to check the limits of a piece of gear before you buy or mount.  Putting a large magnet from an ol speaker is a good idea on the bottom of the oil tank.  Once you have a piece of gear like that do not be surprised if you have  "friends" that want to borrow it.  That never goes well.  Good luck hope to see pics and details.

Quote from: 47sawdust on April 07, 2018, 09:48:40 AMpto is 540 and 750Well thats a bonus, kinda gives you a fast and slow mode or atleast a bit of cushion from sizing error.  I think id size it for the middle and try to get a high and low function, me personally.The bigger the cubic displacement on the pump gears (ie higher flow) the more load it puts on the engine.  A big pump on a small engine will lug way down onto the governor (or downright stall if its sized/relieved that incorrectly) because a bigger shot of oil needs to be squished through the housing.  Dropping pump displacement or psi or both are the only ways i know of to get smooth operation under load from the same size engine.

I am just reading here and trying to understand the concerns and learn something. The question in my mind is why would a loader on the 3ph be any harder on the tractor hydraulics than loading logs with the front end bucket and a grapple. I can move, sort, and load logs into my one ton all day long w/o any troubles. Just trying to understand the difference ??gg

Theres only two sections to the front loader valve, boom and curl.On the log loader a fluent operator will be calling for fluid to slew, boom, stick and rotate all at once.

Mike,I am only fluent in English not hydraulic controls. ;DYour points are well taken and I appreciate your input.

I too appreciate your input on the hydraulic issue Mike.  I have learned a lot on this forum just reading.  Banjo

Thanks Mike, that makes sense. If it were me I would be awfully temped to try it off the tractor before I rigged up a pto pump/resevoir. Especially since I work slow and am not fluent   :D  What do you have to lose if you keep an eye on things. I would think a lot would depend on the duty cycle, so to speak, and total time of a loading session ???????  With a back hoe you may dig steady all day long.gg

I'm going to add a pair of wet lines and give it a go.The crane I'm interested in is a Farma sold by FF sponsor.The model I think is appropriate requires a flow of 2.6 to 9.25gpm.Myhydraulic output is 8.9 gpm so I think I'm okay there.Pump,tank and forth would cost about $800.00,wet lines $150.00 orso.Forumcontribution thousands.Now.... more brain picken..got any left?How to pull wet lines from my loader valve?I've seen reference to one set up where a short section of hose is plugged into the feed and return when the wet lines are not used.This seems right to me but I'm not clear about where to pull the feed from.Can I interrupt the loader feed go out to the wet lines and return to the loader feed?Thanks again.

Anytime fellas, im here to help.First choice if possible is getting a power beyond plug kit for your current loader valve, look for a mfr and part number on it then google for a kit.It will give you working fluid downstream of your current valve.

I've run a wood splitter off of an L3750, not a lot of flow. 3 ph backhoes all have pto pumps, which would be equivalent to the needs of a log loader.

Is this the crane/loader you are looking at: C 3,8  G2  ??  looks like a nice little unit and has fairly modest hydraulic requirements.Lumber crane | FARMA C3.8gg

The one I'm looking at is the C4,2G2,just a little longer reach than the one you listed.Same oil flow.

Ah - OK. So you trade off a little lift at full reach for more length. Hydraulics look the same.Thanks.

To control the cylinder speed use meter out flow controls on both sides of the cylinder so You can adjust the in and out speed separately. I work industrial maintenance at a automotive plant and everything is adjustable like that.

I had a Massey Furgason 1560 with a Bradco backhoe that ran off the rear remotes in the summer it would cook the o-rings in the valve body.I have a Mahindra 3540 now and I'm getting a 3pt loader and it going to run off the rear remotes.I hope I don't have the same problem.

Thinking out loud here, would it be feasible to add a hyd oil cooler on the return line of the loader?

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