Why do you say "I cannot tell you what engine or machine"?I personally have seen cooling systems that would hold pressure for hours but when pressure was let off over night they would leave a stream of coolant across the floor of shop. Sometimes, like in this one, pressure can actually help a seal like in the water pump seal things up.Also are there other sources of water that could get into the engine? That stuff looks like what we had to clean out of a little 3-53 Detroit once. That little engine was coupled to a water pump and we found the problem to be a bad shaft seal on the direct mounted pump to be spraying so much water at the flywheel it was forcing it's way into the crankcase. That stuff we cleaned out was like dirty petroleum jelly.If I had some of that gunk I would drop it in a nice hot frying pan and see what happens. If it has a lot of water in it it will sizzle and pop like crazy. And if you have a strong stomach touch a bit of it to your tongue, if it has coolant in it that will be obvious! Now I didn't say swallow a cup full! Antifreeze will kill you, just a drop on tip of finger would be enough.
Ah whatever, it's a Volvo penta in an unmanned compact exc . No coolant loss. VCS . Only gear driven accessory is servo pump off timing cover. It smells of burnt clutch or brakes. It does return to liquid when heated. Congeals quickly and doesn't separate. Most has the feel of lard.
Initial thought was some kind of additive to cause congealing after coolant contamination was ruled out.
You should have seen a little Isuzu powered genset I looked at a month or 2 ago. It wouldn't start or run. Found out oil pressure switch wasn't closing. Tested switch with air pressure. Switch was good. Pulled the oil filter and it was full of black goop. Felt exactly like 2 day old gravy that was put in the microwave. Engine oil in the pan was brand new. I'm thinking sabotage in our case as well.
Is that out of the oil pan or the coolant?
That is the oil pan . As removed. Made a perfect impression of the girdle ,crank throws and sump pick up
kshansen said:If I had some of that gunk I would drop it in a nice hot frying pan and see what happens. If it has a lot of water in it it will sizzle and pop like crazy. And if you have a strong stomachtouch a bit of it to your tongue, if it has coolant in it that will be obvious! Now I didn't say swallow a cup full! Antifreeze will kill you, just a drop on tip of finger would be enough.Click to expand...And don't lick it directly from the fryin pan, you'll burn yer tongue...
Maybe an "anti-foaming agent" used in the wrong amount?? just a thought..
Its a snail that got caught in the gear train.
This is after settling in for 12 hours. Still sludge. Oil seems to be separating. Main bulk of much looks like wax still.
What does the oil fill cap look like? cause somebody added antifreeze directly to the oil, that's my story...
Valve cover and oil cap were clear. Machine has less than 150 hours
Antifreeze or washer fluid
You might might be looking at assembly grease then. Back a bunch of years ago we used to mix white Lubriplate grease with engine oil and then coat all the main, rod and cam shaft bearings with it. The idea at the time is that you couldn't just do one job so it might take a couple of weeks before you had the engine ready to run. The grease stuff would stay in place.The last engine I rebuilt I used engine oil and then preluded the engine with a hand pump before first start up.
This is the first and second oil change. Mfr advised to clean reassemble, run, drop the oil, run and drop the oil. Almost looks like what I've seen DEF do in fuel filters. But it doesn't have the catpiss stink. Smells more like burnt clutch or brake.
So what does the sample analysis say?To me it doesn't look like coolant, no colour. The closest I've seen to this is from machines that have been flooded in salt water.
Our own hillbilly test here shows DEF and oil thicken up to a soupy mix similar to 80/90 with a very similar odor.I guess rushing oil analysis means," take your time"
And when I compared images of those oil filters ,they look eerily similar to images of DEF in Fuel filter images displayed on google
Well, we got the oil analysis report back late Friday. Only 4 contaminants in the serious/critical range.Primary, water. Just plain water, 0% glycol or DEF, just water.Coming in at second, silica. Yeah, I don't know either.Third and fourth lead and copper.That's it. The metals I was anticipating since oil pump can't scavenge and pump sludge. There would naturally be some starvation and subsequent accelerated wear . The silica and water. Wasn't ready for that one.Of course nobody knows how it got into a less than 150 hour machine.So there you have it. Water will totally destroy your oils ability to flow, pour and lubricate.kshansen said:Why do you say "I cannot tell you what engine or machine"?I personally have seen cooling systems that would hold pressure for hours but when pressure was let off over night they would leave a stream of coolant across the floor of shop. Sometimes, like in this one, pressure can actually help a seal like in the water pump seal things up.Also are there other sources of water that could get into the engine? That stuff looks like what we had to clean out of a little 3-53 Detroit once. That little engine was coupled to a water pump and we found the problem to be a bad shaft seal on the direct mounted pump to be spraying so much water at the flywheel it was forcing it's way into the crankcase. That stuff we cleaned out was like dirty petroleum jelly.If I had some of that gunk I would drop it in a nice hot frying pan and see what happens. If it has a lot of water in it it will sizzle and pop like crazy. And if you have a strong stomach touch a bit of it to your tongue, if it has coolant in it that will be obvious! Now I didn't say swallow a cup full! Antifreeze will kill you, just a drop on tip of finger would be enough.Click to expand...You were real close. These engines are in remote controlled excavator working over molten slag. We've still not found point of ingress.
All is speculation at this point but plain water did not get in there from a blown head gasket. Either it is rain water or it got in there somehow else if you know what I mean.Silica, same thing. Either the air filter is not working or it got in there another way.
Well, that goes back to the original thought of sabotage. I just have no way of proving my theory.
Condensation from high humidity and high heat? Silica from slag dust?
Sealed crancase ventilation. Gases get pulled back through pressure regulator valve on back of valve cover through passage to turbo inlet elbow. All in tact. Air filters and piping all in good order. Relatively short run time. .I appreciate everyone's input.That's what I love about this place. Everyone has experience and thoughts of their own. More thoughts and ideas than one person can achieve.
Silica gel?I can't see how plain water would do that to oil, water evaporates out of oil or forms foam, unless there's some odd contaminants.
I'm still in disbelief. I thought the same as everyone else. Had to be coolant intrusion or some other something, but just plain old water.And that's why I'm losing my hair.But not from tasting coolant, been doing that since I was just a little squirt. No problems at all.
Delmer said:Silica gel?I can't see how plain water would do that to oil, water evaporates out of oil or forms foam, unless there's some odd contaminants.Click to expand...A little bit of water evaporates. A lot of water and this is what you get. I've seen it happen even with used oil left out in the rain, shake it up and it never will separate again even if left in a bucket in the hot sun for months.
Well I thought that looked familiar to what our little Detroit had in it.Is this the only one that has done it or are there others? I know I would be checking the oil supply that is used for the engines. could there be a problem in how it is stored? Or are the engines exposed to a wash down to cool them down from the hot slag?
No further information at this time. No wash down. Machine has less than 150 hours, looks like it has 25,000 at a scrap yard. It almost appears as though the operators are deliberately trying to destroy them. There are 3 machines, one gets the counterweight knocked off regularly, this one with water in the oil, and lastly, the last one I believe caught fire once already.
Anyone change oil in it lately ? Maybe added oil out of a bucket with water in it ? Seen that happen a time or two.Bob
No, no service. Hasn't put enough hours in to even reach the first service interval.
I don't know much about steel mill operations, but there isn't any water cannons/sprinklers/etc used for cooling near the excavator is there?
To my knowledge, nothing of the sort. I'm sure they have tools available should the need arise, but I don't believe that they use them to regularly cool the machine down.
Likely no water around the molten metal, one ounce of water submerged is equal to a stick of dynamite in molten metal, and if you ever been near a furnace open hearth when it blows, you'll never want to see it again. Water is very dangerous in those conditions. No way they would use it to cool the machines down. You are more likely on the right track with someone doing intentional damage.
The steel mill here uses water to cool the slag all the time. There are sprinklers overhead and a fire hose is shooting not the hot pile all the time. Here they use wheel loaders to pick the hot slag out of the mill. The have all kinds of modifications on the machines with special buckets and guard packages to keep the stuff from burning up the machines. They have two loaders. One works until the temps get hot and then it is parked. The other one is then worked until it gets hot. Both machines look like wrecks within a month from new. The local Cat dealer keeps a mechanic on site all the time. Both machines have telematics and a guy in the office monitors the alarms. The operators will work them till they overheat if someone doesn't tell them switch when the alarms ring.
funwithfuel said:No further information at this time. No wash down. Machine has less than 150 hours, looks like it has 25,000 at a scrap yard. It almost appears as though the operators are deliberately trying to destroy them. There are 3 machines, one gets the counterweight knocked off regularly, this one with water in the oil, and lastly, the last one I believe caught fire once already.Click to expand...hidden cameras will tell you the story on what employees are doing, its a small investment to save machines that cost tens or hundreds of thousands...
funwithfuel said:Sealed crankcase ventilation. Gases get pulled back through pressure regulator valve on back of valve cover through passage to turbo inlet elbow. All in tact.Click to expand...But is it functioning as it was designed to be ?Maybe pull the dipstick while the engine is running and look for excessive pressure build -up.
Reminds me of the pics I posted a while back. 6V92 Detroit, oil pan full of waxy sludge. Forgot how it happened.
Silica = Dirt. Someone dumped a pail of dirty /muddy water into the oil. Or the machine was driven through a deep puddle as in someone was four-wheel'n. Or the muddy machine was washed with a filler cap left off or open. Or contaminated oil was introduced. Oil drums are notorious for collecting water when left bung up instead of being stored on their side.